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Thread: 22 genomes from Northeastern and Central Italy dated between 3200 and 1500 BCE

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    22 genomes from Northeastern and Central Italy dated between 3200 and 1500 BCE

    Ancient genomes reveal structural shifts after the arrival of Steppe-related ancestry in the Italian Peninsula

    https://www.cell.com/current-biology...822(21)00535-2


    Data and code availability
    The accession number for the DNA sequences reported in this paper is ENA PRJEB37660
    https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/browser/view/PRJEB37660

    The data are also available through the data depository of the EBC

    (https://evolbio.ut.ee/Saupe_2021/).


    Last edited by David Bush; 05-11-2021 at 05:02 PM.

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    Great news! Unfortunately the link is not working for me, not even in Sci-Hub.
    MDKA: Robert Boulay, b. 1631, Réveillon, Orne, France
    Y-DNA: R1b-U152 > L2 > Z367 > Z34 > Z33 > BY164497> BY3604

    Maternal Y-DNA: J2a-M67 > Z1847 > Y4036 > Z467 > Z447> L210

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    Quote Originally Posted by alchemist223 View Post
    Great news! Unfortunately the link is not working for me, not even in Sci-Hub.
    https://www.cell.com/action/showPdf?...2821%2900535-2

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    A lot of them failed C14 dating. If I'm not mistaken, only one male sample of R-P312 happens to be firmly in the Bronze Age. I guess the autosomes of the remaining females help support the "steppe" conclusion.
    YDNA: R1b-BY50830 Stepney, London, UK George Wood b. 1782 English <-> Bavarian cluster
    m gf YDNA: ?? Gurr, James ~1740, Smarden, Kent, England.
    m gm YDNA: R1b-P311+ Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    m ggf YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    p ggf YDNA: R1b-Z17901. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    p ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton Ireland(?) 1800s

    other:
    Turner: R-U152
    Welch: early 1800s E-M84 Kent, England.

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    I may be mistaken, but it doesn't seem that ancient DNA studies are coming out a bit too hurriedly lately. Millions are spent on research grants and I feel that when it comes time to publish the results ... Well, look at the results of the C14 dating...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kolfefe View Post
    I may be mistaken, but it doesn't seem that ancient DNA studies are coming out a bit too hurriedly lately. Millions are spent on research grants and I feel that when it comes time to publish the results ... Well, look at the results of the C14 dating...
    It would have been better to spend some of this money on producing complete software
    So that scientists do not have to spend a lot of time learning, testing and analyzing with several Command Line software

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    Not a single J1.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Bush View Post
    It would have been better to spend some of this money on producing complete software
    So that scientists do not have to spend a lot of time learning, testing and analyzing with several Command Line software
    I agree, part of this money should be used for the development of new data interpretation tools. And I'm not the only one who does the same criticism ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Bush View Post
    Ancient genomes reveal structural shifts after the arrival of Steppe-related ancestry in the Italian Peninsula

    https://www.cell.com/current-biology...822(21)00535-2


    Data and code availability
    The accession number for the DNA sequences reported in this paper is ENA PRJEB37660
    https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/browser/view/PRJEB37660

    The data are also available through the data depository of the EBC

    (http://evolbio.ut.ee).


    I would say that their conclusion about the timing of the arrival of steppe ancestry is a little bit weird. We already know that there are Sicilian Beaker at around 2400/2200 with R1b P312. How can they conclude that steppe ancestry arrived in northern Italy only in 2000 BC. The sicilian BB did not fly all the way to southern Italy.
    Two notes
    1. The phenotype did not change much after steppe dna came. This confirms that Yamnaya and daughter cultures were not different that much from "old european". They were just obviously taller and more robust
    2. Probably we have solved the mistery of the italic ethnogenesis: the BBC groups that we can see along the alps from Sion and the Baverian Beaker are probably the steppe groups that mixing with the remedellians in northern Italy came out as proto italics which at this point emerged from and leaked south during the Polada cultural horizon
    Last edited by etrusco; 05-10-2021 at 08:24 PM.

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    Interesting to note too that the Chalcolithic samples seem to be related to eachother along their paternal lines and the burial patterns seem to indicate patrilocality as well. They say then that this does not seem to be the case with the Bronze Age samples.

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