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Thread: Were pre-Turkic Anatolians genetically Semitic?

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    Were pre-Turkic Anatolians genetically Semitic?

    Pre-Turkic Anatolians are genetically like modern-day Cypriots, AFAIK. Also, I've heard that modern-day Cypriots are a good proxy for pre-Arabic Semites. So, does it mean pre-Turkic Anatolians were genetically Semitic?

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    Which sample are you using as a point of reference?
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainn View Post
    Pre-Turkic Anatolians are genetically like modern-day Cypriots, AFAIK. Also, I've heard that modern-day Cypriots are a good proxy for pre-Arabic Semites. So, does it mean pre-Turkic Anatolians were genetically Semitic?
    What you could quantify is proto-Semetic admixture, if you identify the homeland and have the relevant samples.

    But pre-Turkic Anatolians would descend primarily from non-Semetic peoples and it would have beeen ridiculous to call them "genetically Semetic" whatever that means. Pre-Arabic "Semites" would have had non-Semetic admixture too.

    And concerning Cypriots much of the Levantine admixture they have is likely pre-Semetic.

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    They were similar to either Greeks or Armenians depending on the region in Turkey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dosas View Post
    Which sample are you using as a point of reference?
    Think they mean TUR_Alalakh_MLBA? Those samples and those from SYR_Ebla_EMBA are quite similar to the Bronze Age samples from Lebanon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seabass View Post
    Think they mean TUR_Alalakh_MLBA? Those samples and those from SYR_Ebla_EMBA are quite similar to the Bronze Age samples from Lebanon.

    That's hardly relevant for what we would call as post-Persian, post-Seleucid, post-Roman pre-Manzikert Anatolia, though, I believe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainn View Post
    Pre-Turkic Anatolians are genetically like modern-day Cypriots, AFAIK. Also, I've heard that modern-day Cypriots are a good proxy for pre-Arabic Semites. So, does it mean pre-Turkic Anatolians were genetically Semitic?
    Depends on what you mean by Pre-Turkic Anatolians if by that you mean what is today Southeastern Turkey than yeah they would obviously have Levantine conections to a varying degree but if we are talking about everywhere else than the is answer is NO.

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    Define "genetically Semitic."

    I would say no. They descended mostly from Bronze Age Anatolians (Kaman/Ovaoren/Isparta-like populations), who in turn descended almost fully from Chalcolithic Anatolians, who in turn were a mixture of Anatolia_N and CHG+Iran_N. Pre-IE Anatolian languages (such as Hattic) are thought to be either isolate languages or Caucasus-related languages (introduced by a CHG-rich people from the east if true).


    Cypriots have high levels of Levant_BA like ancestry; Anatolians don't, except for Alalakh and Titris Hoyuk samples (also additional Iran_C-related ancestry in Titris), but these samples are from places that are not part of traditional Anatolia.


    Caucasus_BA: RUS_Maykop_Novosvobodnaya + Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
    Anatolia_BA: TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA + TUR_Ovaoren_BA
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    No such thing of a genetic grouping called Semitic....it's a langauge group spoken by a diverse group of people.Semitic speaking Assyrians cluster with IE speaking Armenians and Semitic speaking Amhara cluster with the Cushitic Agaw.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leper View Post
    Define "genetically Semitic."

    I would say no. They descended mostly from Bronze Age Anatolians (Kaman/Ovaoren/Isparta-like populations), who in turn descended almost fully from Chalcolithic Anatolians, who in turn were a mixture of Anatolia_N and CHG+Iran_N. Pre-IE Anatolian languages (such as Hattic) are thought to be either isolate languages or Caucasus-related languages (introduced by a CHG-rich people from the east if true).


    Cypriots have high levels of Levant_BA like ancestry; Anatolians don't, except for Alalakh and Titris Hoyuk samples (also additional Iran_C-related ancestry in Titris), but these samples are from places that are not part of traditional Anatolia.


    Caucasus_BA: RUS_Maykop_Novosvobodnaya + Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
    Anatolia_BA: TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA + TUR_Ovaoren_BA
    A question: why Catacomb, and not something like Yamnaya_BGR? There is no way that pure Steppe reached Anatolia, right?

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