# Thread: According to the Harappaworld Calculator Iran Baloch and Pak Baloch aren't related?

1. ## According to the Harappaworld Calculator Iran Baloch and Pak Baloch aren't related?

I am new to all this stuff, so I am trying to figure out what this all means. When I put in the coordinates for Iranian Baloch has a distance from Pakistani Baloch of 22 - Am I interpreting there results wrong or does it mean that Baloch is more of a shared cultural and linguistic group rather than a genetic cluster.

2. Originally Posted by kesh
I am new to all this stuff, so I am trying to figure out what this all means. When I put in the coordinates for Iranian Baloch has a distance from Pakistani Baloch of 22 - Am I interpreting there results wrong or does it mean that Baloch is more of a shared cultural and linguistic group rather than a genetic cluster.
Ye. I noticed that too and it's really confusing. Maybe the Pak Baloch sample is more mixed. Or maybe it includes Sindhis who identify as Balochi.

Anyways, I think Pakistani Baloch are very very similar to Iranian Baluch.

3. Yeah that must be it, I can't think of any other logical reason - The distance should be about the same as a Bangladeshi and an Indian Bengali.

4. What do you mean by a distance of 22? Single population oracle distances?

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6. Originally Posted by Sapporo
What do you mean by a distance of 22? Single population oracle distances?
I don't know about OP, but that what I was wondering about. I think OP was asking about the same thing. The genetic distances (single population sharing) on the Vahaduo Harrapa World calculator between Iran Baloch and Pakistani Baloch are huge.

No other calculator on Vahaduo has a separate Iranian Baluch category.

Distance to Baloch Iran: Pakistani populations(except for Parsis) including Pakistani Baloch don't show up in the populations closest to Iranian Baloch.

Distance to: Baloch_Iran
4.13844174 Iranian_Bandari
9.15329995 Parsi
10.86543142 Tajik_Herat
11.80872559 Pashtun_Kandahar
12.25538657 Tajik_Shia&Qizilbash
13.09240620 Iranian_Kerman
13.73316060 Pashtun_North_Afghanistan
13.79195780 Pashtun
14.14007426 Tajik_Panjshir&Kapisa
15.10696197 Tajik_Kabul
16.11656911 Pashtun_Tarkalani
16.19354501 Iranian_Shiraz
16.74228479 BMAC_Dzharkutan
16.98991171 Pashtun_Uthmankhel
17.62795791 Pashtun_Yusufzai
18.22826377 Iraq_Domari
18.25384069 Nuristani
18.45096474 Dameli
18.49641046 Turkmen
18.54034250 Kho
18.70663251 Iranian1
18.76793276 Tajik_Kulo
18.77233070 Mazandarani
18.90187028 Tajik_Tajikistan

Pakistani Baloch/Brahui/Makrani are closer to other Pakistanis and very far away from Iranian Baloch.

Distance to: Baloch_Pakistan
4.69084214 Brahui
4.75340930 Makrani
17.97091261 Bhatia
18.31237833 Gujarati_Khoja_Sheikh
18.66302762 Kalash
18.99943683 Sindhi2
19.23723733 Nuristani
19.31870078 Pathan
20.58965760 Sindhi1
21.40428929 Punjabi_Malik
21.50155343 Burusho
21.91311251 Punjabi_Arain
21.99330125 Dameli
22.17498591 Baloch_Iran
22.30663354 Sindhi_Memon
22.43743969 Gawar
22.49110269 Tajik_Panjshir&Kapisa
22.84302082 Pashtun_Tarkalani
22.84990372 BMAC_Dzharkutan
23.09411180 Sindhi_Hindu
23.15894428 Punjabi_Pahari_Gujjar
23.43422924 Gujjar_Pakistan
23.44765873 Pashtun
23.47126967 Pashtun_Yusufzai
23.52174101 Pashtun_Uthmankhel

Look at how far away Makranis are from Iranian Baloch

Distance to: Makrani
4.75340930 Baloch_Pakistan
5.94623410 Brahui
21.51153876 Baloch_Iran
21.64421632 Kalash
21.71122290 Bhatia
21.80220631 BMAC_Dzharkutan
22.00049545 Nuristani
22.09925564 Gujarati_Khoja_Sheikh
22.42910832 Pathan
22.79940131 Sindhi2
23.35566741 Iranian_Bandari
23.83766557 Sindhi1
24.29452202 Tajik_Panjshir&Kapisa
24.58398462 Burusho
24.59963008 Dameli
25.06904266 Punjabi_Malik
25.07185873 Pashtun_Tarkalani
25.09844617 Pashtun
25.73807297 Punjabi_Arain
25.74249599 Pashtun_Kandahar
25.82578169 Pashtun_Uthmankhel
25.83183307 Sindhi_Memon
25.95197488 Pashtun_Yusufzai
26.02503794 Gawar
26.40187304 Sindhi_Hindu

Brahuis

Distance to: Brahui
4.69084214 Baloch_Pakistan
5.94623410 Makrani
21.58030352 Bhatia
21.88254099 Gujarati_Khoja_Sheikh
22.33902415 Sindhi2
22.83177610 Kalash
23.31323015 Nuristani
23.49515269 Pathan
24.71108253 Sindhi1
25.07113081 Punjabi_Malik
25.14039379 Burusho
25.34173830 Punjabi_Arain
25.56679683 BMAC_Dzharkutan
26.14791196 Dameli
26.18121846 Baloch_Iran
26.25887469 Sindhi_Memon
26.34448519 Gawar
26.78021098 Tajik_Panjshir&Kapisa
26.78122663 Punjabi_Pahari_Gujjar
27.20328289 Pashtun_Tarkalani
27.20564647 Sindhi_Hindu
27.23472599 Gujjar_Pakistan
27.39821710 Punjabi_Jatt_Sikh
27.84771265 Pashtun
27.85023878 Phalura

7. Well, the first issue I see is the Baloch component on Harappa is based on the HGDP Baloch, Brahui and Makrani samples. It it maximized in them in contrast to Iranian Baloch (for non academic samples I've seen) who seems to score less of the Baloch component and more of the Caucasian components suggesting more Plateau Iranian ancestry from Western/Central Iranian populations (this likely translates to higher ANF and lower Iran N on G25 or higher Iran ChL ancestry and less BMAC). Anyways, do you have Iranian Baloch G25 coordinates? I'd like to compare them to the HGDP Pakistani Baloch and see how the raw distances manifest there as admixture calculators are outdated.

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9. Originally Posted by Azbuzz
I don't know about OP, but that what I was wondering about. I think OP was asking about the same thing. The genetic distances (single population sharing) on the Vahaduo Harrapa World calculator between Iran Baloch and Pakistani Baloch are huge.

No other calculator on Vahaduo has a separate Iranian Baluch category.

Distance to Baloch Iran: Pakistani populations(except for Parsis) including Pakistani Baloch don't show up in the populations closest to Iranian Baloch.

Distance to: Baloch_Iran
4.13844174 Iranian_Bandari
9.15329995 Parsi
10.86543142 Tajik_Herat
11.80872559 Pashtun_Kandahar
12.25538657 Tajik_Shia&Qizilbash
13.09240620 Iranian_Kerman
13.73316060 Pashtun_North_Afghanistan
13.79195780 Pashtun
14.14007426 Tajik_Panjshir&Kapisa
15.10696197 Tajik_Kabul
16.11656911 Pashtun_Tarkalani
16.19354501 Iranian_Shiraz
16.74228479 BMAC_Dzharkutan
16.98991171 Pashtun_Uthmankhel
17.62795791 Pashtun_Yusufzai
18.22826377 Iraq_Domari
18.25384069 Nuristani
18.45096474 Dameli
18.49641046 Turkmen
18.54034250 Kho
18.70663251 Iranian1
18.76793276 Tajik_Kulo
18.77233070 Mazandarani
18.90187028 Tajik_Tajikistan

Pakistani Baloch/Brahui/Makrani are closer to other Pakistanis and very far away from Iranian Baloch.

Distance to: Baloch_Pakistan
4.69084214 Brahui
4.75340930 Makrani
17.97091261 Bhatia
18.31237833 Gujarati_Khoja_Sheikh
18.66302762 Kalash
18.99943683 Sindhi2
19.23723733 Nuristani
19.31870078 Pathan
20.58965760 Sindhi1
21.40428929 Punjabi_Malik
21.50155343 Burusho
21.91311251 Punjabi_Arain
21.99330125 Dameli
22.17498591 Baloch_Iran
22.30663354 Sindhi_Memon
22.43743969 Gawar
22.49110269 Tajik_Panjshir&Kapisa
22.84302082 Pashtun_Tarkalani
22.84990372 BMAC_Dzharkutan
23.09411180 Sindhi_Hindu
23.15894428 Punjabi_Pahari_Gujjar
23.43422924 Gujjar_Pakistan
23.44765873 Pashtun
23.47126967 Pashtun_Yusufzai
23.52174101 Pashtun_Uthmankhel

Look at how far away Makranis are from Iranian Baloch

Distance to: Makrani
4.75340930 Baloch_Pakistan
5.94623410 Brahui
21.51153876 Baloch_Iran
21.64421632 Kalash
21.71122290 Bhatia
21.80220631 BMAC_Dzharkutan
22.00049545 Nuristani
22.09925564 Gujarati_Khoja_Sheikh
22.42910832 Pathan
22.79940131 Sindhi2
23.35566741 Iranian_Bandari
23.83766557 Sindhi1
24.29452202 Tajik_Panjshir&Kapisa
24.58398462 Burusho
24.59963008 Dameli
25.06904266 Punjabi_Malik
25.07185873 Pashtun_Tarkalani
25.09844617 Pashtun
25.73807297 Punjabi_Arain
25.74249599 Pashtun_Kandahar
25.82578169 Pashtun_Uthmankhel
25.83183307 Sindhi_Memon
25.95197488 Pashtun_Yusufzai
26.02503794 Gawar
26.40187304 Sindhi_Hindu

Brahuis

Distance to: Brahui
4.69084214 Baloch_Pakistan
5.94623410 Makrani
21.58030352 Bhatia
21.88254099 Gujarati_Khoja_Sheikh
22.33902415 Sindhi2
22.83177610 Kalash
23.31323015 Nuristani
23.49515269 Pathan
24.71108253 Sindhi1
25.07113081 Punjabi_Malik
25.14039379 Burusho
25.34173830 Punjabi_Arain
25.56679683 BMAC_Dzharkutan
26.14791196 Dameli
26.18121846 Baloch_Iran
26.25887469 Sindhi_Memon
26.34448519 Gawar
26.78021098 Tajik_Panjshir&Kapisa
26.78122663 Punjabi_Pahari_Gujjar
27.20328289 Pashtun_Tarkalani
27.20564647 Sindhi_Hindu
27.23472599 Gujjar_Pakistan
27.39821710 Punjabi_Jatt_Sikh
27.84771265 Pashtun
27.85023878 Phalura
"Vahaduo Harappa" is an unrealiable site, meaning there is no certainty of the data being used. Please refer to here.

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11. Originally Posted by Sapporo
Well, the first issue I see is the Baloch component on Harappa is based on the HGDP Baloch, Brahui and Makrani samples. It it maximized in them in contrast to Iranian Baloch who seems to score less of the Baloch component and more of the Caucasian components suggesting more Pleteau Iranian ancestry from Western/Central Iranian populations (this likely translates to higher ANF and lower Iran N on G25 or higher Iran ChL ancestry and less BMAC. Anyways, do you have Iranian Baloch G25 coordinates? I'd like to compare them to the HGDP Pakistani Baloch and see how the raw distances manifest there as admixture calculators are outdated.
Yes. Baloch in Iran have more Plateau Iranian. You're right about that. Baloch in Karachi/Sindh are more Sindhi admixed and Baloch in Oman are different a tad as well I think. I saw posts with the results on Anthrogenica a few months ago. I can't seem to find them anymore.

I don't know about the Baloch in Afghanistan.

I've seen old papers from the 2010s and they said Baloch in Iran cluster with Baloch in Pakistan.

12. Originally Posted by Kulin
"Vahaduo Harappa" is an unrealiable site, meaning there is no certainty of the data being used. Please refer to here.
Haha. LukaszM seems like a strange guy lol.

Yes you are right about Harrapaworld Vahaduo being strange and unreliable sometimes. I was wondering why some of the population distances seemed so strange. Your post on LukaszM clarifies all my doubts.

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Kulin (05-18-2021)

14. Originally Posted by Azbuzz
I don't know about OP, but that what I was wondering about. I think OP was asking about the same thing. The genetic distances (single population sharing) on the Vahaduo Harrapa World calculator between Iran Baloch and Pakistani Baloch are huge.

No other calculator on Vahaduo has a separate Iranian Baluch category.

Distance to Baloch Iran: Pakistani populations(except for Parsis) including Pakistani Baloch don't show up in the populations closest to Iranian Baloch.

Distance to: Baloch_Iran
4.13844174 Iranian_Bandari
9.15329995 Parsi
10.86543142 Tajik_Herat
11.80872559 Pashtun_Kandahar
12.25538657 Tajik_Shia&Qizilbash
13.09240620 Iranian_Kerman
13.73316060 Pashtun_North_Afghanistan
13.79195780 Pashtun
14.14007426 Tajik_Panjshir&Kapisa
15.10696197 Tajik_Kabul
16.11656911 Pashtun_Tarkalani
16.19354501 Iranian_Shiraz
16.74228479 BMAC_Dzharkutan
16.98991171 Pashtun_Uthmankhel
17.62795791 Pashtun_Yusufzai
18.22826377 Iraq_Domari
18.25384069 Nuristani
18.45096474 Dameli
18.49641046 Turkmen
18.54034250 Kho
18.70663251 Iranian1
18.76793276 Tajik_Kulo
18.77233070 Mazandarani
18.90187028 Tajik_Tajikistan

Pakistani Baloch/Brahui/Makrani are closer to other Pakistanis and very far away from Iranian Baloch.

Distance to: Baloch_Pakistan
4.69084214 Brahui
4.75340930 Makrani
17.97091261 Bhatia
18.31237833 Gujarati_Khoja_Sheikh
18.66302762 Kalash
18.99943683 Sindhi2
19.23723733 Nuristani
19.31870078 Pathan
20.58965760 Sindhi1
21.40428929 Punjabi_Malik
21.50155343 Burusho
21.91311251 Punjabi_Arain
21.99330125 Dameli
22.17498591 Baloch_Iran
22.30663354 Sindhi_Memon
22.43743969 Gawar
22.49110269 Tajik_Panjshir&Kapisa
22.84302082 Pashtun_Tarkalani
22.84990372 BMAC_Dzharkutan
23.09411180 Sindhi_Hindu
23.15894428 Punjabi_Pahari_Gujjar
23.43422924 Gujjar_Pakistan
23.44765873 Pashtun
23.47126967 Pashtun_Yusufzai
23.52174101 Pashtun_Uthmankhel

Look at how far away Makranis are from Iranian Baloch

Distance to: Makrani
4.75340930 Baloch_Pakistan
5.94623410 Brahui
21.51153876 Baloch_Iran
21.64421632 Kalash
21.71122290 Bhatia
21.80220631 BMAC_Dzharkutan
22.00049545 Nuristani
22.09925564 Gujarati_Khoja_Sheikh
22.42910832 Pathan
22.79940131 Sindhi2
23.35566741 Iranian_Bandari
23.83766557 Sindhi1
24.29452202 Tajik_Panjshir&Kapisa
24.58398462 Burusho
24.59963008 Dameli
25.06904266 Punjabi_Malik
25.07185873 Pashtun_Tarkalani
25.09844617 Pashtun
25.73807297 Punjabi_Arain
25.74249599 Pashtun_Kandahar
25.82578169 Pashtun_Uthmankhel
25.83183307 Sindhi_Memon
25.95197488 Pashtun_Yusufzai
26.02503794 Gawar
26.40187304 Sindhi_Hindu

Brahuis

Distance to: Brahui
4.69084214 Baloch_Pakistan
5.94623410 Makrani
21.58030352 Bhatia
21.88254099 Gujarati_Khoja_Sheikh
22.33902415 Sindhi2
22.83177610 Kalash
23.31323015 Nuristani
23.49515269 Pathan
24.71108253 Sindhi1
25.07113081 Punjabi_Malik
25.14039379 Burusho
25.34173830 Punjabi_Arain
25.56679683 BMAC_Dzharkutan
26.14791196 Dameli
26.18121846 Baloch_Iran
26.25887469 Sindhi_Memon
26.34448519 Gawar
26.78021098 Tajik_Panjshir&Kapisa
26.78122663 Punjabi_Pahari_Gujjar
27.20328289 Pashtun_Tarkalani
27.20564647 Sindhi_Hindu
27.23472599 Gujjar_Pakistan
27.39821710 Punjabi_Jatt_Sikh
27.84771265 Pashtun
27.85023878 Phalura
The core Baloch population from Eastern Iran are basically identical to the Pak Baloch with similar uniparental markers, if that sample has a distance that large, that "Baloch_Iran" is not a Baloch to begin with.

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