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Thread: Do Levantine Muslims have Egyptian ancestry?

  1. #1
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    Do Levantine Muslims have Egyptian ancestry?

    Target: Palestinian
    Distance: 0.6074% / 0.00607406
    29.6 Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
    25.4 Egyptian
    24.6 Turkish_Adana
    18.4 BedouinB
    2.0 Somali


    I keep seeing them score Egyptian in calculators

  2. #2
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    It would be incredible if Palestinians didn't have significant Egyptian ancestry, considering the geography and how tied Gaza/Philistia is and always was to Egypt.
    Even the freaking PLO leader Yassir Arafat had strong ties to Egypt, as a Cairo-born person with an Egyptian paternal grandmother.
    Last edited by MLSK; 06-10-2021 at 09:58 PM.

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    There are some Levantine samples on G25 that are heavily Egyptian.I remember there was this one Jordanian sample that was like 90% Egyptian but it could just be a regular Levantine with recent Sahelian/West African ancestry that makes it look they have Egyptian ancestry.There are still minor African descendants in Palestine/Jordan many of whom claim their origins in Sudan & Chad.

    The result you posted is just terrible as Somali is just hiding the excess Dinka/Sahelian ancestry missing from the Egyptian average while BedouinB contains Yoruba admixture as well.The only Arabs that have actual Horner ancestry especially Somali ancestry are some Yemenis.
    Target: Drobbah_scaled
    Distance: 2.8833% / 0.02883253
    93.8 Somali
    6.2 Yemenite_Dhamar

    FTDNA myorigins 3.0:
    Eritrea, Northern Ethiopia & Somalia
    94%
    Yemenite Jewish
    6%

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    Quote Originally Posted by drobbah View Post
    There are some Levantine samples on G25 that are heavily Egyptian.I remember there was this one Jordanian sample that was like 90% Egyptian but it could just be a regular Levantine with recent Sahelian/West African ancestry that makes it look they have Egyptian ancestry.There are still minor African descendants in Palestine/Jordan many of whom claim their origins in Sudan & Chad.

    The result you posted is just terrible as Somali is just hiding the excess Dinka/Sahelian ancestry missing from the Egyptian average while BedouinB contains Yoruba admixture as well.The only Arabs that have actual Horner ancestry especially Somali ancestry are some Yemenis.
    Elaborate on this. Where does the African ancestry in Levantine Muslims come from then? Exclusively from mixing with Egyptians? I find that quite unlikely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cynic View Post
    Elaborate on this. Where does the African ancestry in Levantine Muslims come from then? Exclusively from mixing with Egyptians? I find that quite unlikely.
    Sahelians (Nilo-Saharans) & West Africans were sent in large numbers to the Levant and Egypt.Which is why BedouinA & BedouinB score Yoruba and Dinka, same goes for the Levantine & Egyptian muslims although Egyptians probably have an earlier ancient Dinka-like ancestry which is present in the Copts

    While Arabia had more East African sources such as Nilotic & Omotic tribesmen sold by the Abysinnians occasional Cushitic & Ethio-Semites captured in raids by Somalis sold to the Yemenis.But the vast majority of slaves sent to Arabia and the entire Indian Ocean including the Gulf/Southern Iraq are Bantus (Zunuuj).
    Last edited by drobbah; 06-12-2021 at 05:59 AM.
    Target: Drobbah_scaled
    Distance: 2.8833% / 0.02883253
    93.8 Somali
    6.2 Yemenite_Dhamar

    FTDNA myorigins 3.0:
    Eritrea, Northern Ethiopia & Somalia
    94%
    Yemenite Jewish
    6%

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     Cynic (06-12-2021)

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    Quote Originally Posted by drobbah View Post
    Sahelians (Nilo-Saharans) & West Africans were sent in large numbers to the Levant and Egypt.Which is why BedouinA & BedouinB score Yoruba and Dinka, same goes for the Levantine & Egyptian muslims although Egyptians probably have an earlier ancient Dinka-like ancestry which is present in the Copts

    While Arabia had more East African sources such as Nilotic & Omotic tribesmen sold by the Abysinnians occasional Cushitic & Ethio-Semites captured in raids by Somalis sold to the Yemenis.But the vast majority of slaves sent to Arabia and the entire Indian Ocean including the Gulf/Southern Iraq are Bantus (Zunuuj).
    Funnily enough I was considering this recently. This is why I now include a Bantu proxy alongside a Horner one in my models when modeling west Asian populations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cynic View Post
    Funnily enough I was considering this recently. This is why I now include a Bantu proxy alongside a Horner one in my models when modeling west Asian populations.
    It should depend on the West Asian populations.For Mashriqi Arabs (Northern Middle Easterners) except Southern Iraq it would make more sense to use Dinka or Sudanese & Yoruba.I think many of these slaves to Egypt/Levant were provided by the Christian Nubian kingdoms prior to the tribal Arab invasions of Sudan.Even Salahuddin had to face a 50k African Fatimid army revolt, these men probably came from Nubia and other areas in the Sahel.These Black troops were recruited by the Fatimids for a long time period

    For Arabian Peninsula populations especially if we get any Omani samples it's best to use Bantus,Sudanese & a Horner population although I don't think there is any actual significant percentage of the Arabian population outside of Yemen and perhaps some Hijazis that would have real autosomal Horner ancestry.

    There was bidirectional admixture going on between Yemen & the Horn for a very long time and judging by the Saudi paternal african haplogroups on Y-full it seems the vast majority of Africans were Bantus,Sahelians (Hijaz still has a strong Sahelian descended population like the Levant due to the Hajj) and Horners of various genetic backgrounds such as southern Ethio Omotic tribes and Nilotics that live within the modern borders of the Horn.Currently there are only Saudis/Kuwaitis that fall under the same subclade as Mota the 4.5k Ethio HG with one Saudi sample sharing a tmrca of 10k years with him.

    https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-M329/
    Last edited by drobbah; 06-12-2021 at 06:47 AM.

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