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Thread: Scottish R1a

  1. #1
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    Scottish R1a

    I didn't really want to start an entire thread for a single question, but I couldn't find a proper place to ask it.

    I've discovered that my Paternal Grandmothers, Fathers, Mothers, Father belongs to R1a1a -M17. I know next to nothing about this group and would like to learn more. Especially regarding its presence in Scotland.

    I'm assuming that its presence may be the result of either the Vikings or Normans, but this is based off of my limited knowledge of R1a in the Isles.

    Here is the project group for the Reid family, kit number 265363

    https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ction=yresults

    I'm hoping one of the R1a guru's can give me some more insight to this. You can find their Str's in the Ungrouped R1a section towards the bottom of the page.
     
    Y-DNA : R1b-P312>DF27>Z196>L176.2>Z262>SRY2627*

    mtDNA : J1c8

    Lactase Persistence: rs4988235 - AA rs182549 - TT

    EEF 49.22068981
    WHG 35.89409732
    ANE 14.88521287


    Eurogenes K7:
    WHG 61.67%
    ENF 19.35%
    ANE 15.21%


    Ysearch - ky8wb

    ftdna - 151463

    23andMe - M936999

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Gray Fox For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (04-08-2014)

  3. #2
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    Offhand, I would say that it looks Z284+ (Scandinavian). But for a more precise assessment, please consider joining the R1a1a and Subclades Project, a.k.a. the R1a Project.

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to lgmayka For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (04-08-2014),  Gray Fox (04-08-2014)

  5. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_Isaack View Post
    Here is the project group for the Reid family, kit number 265363
    He seems to belong to a specific STR-defined cluster callled 8.B5 in the above-mentioned project (where me and lgmayka are co-admins). Thus, he is predicted to test positive for L448 but negative for CTS4179, a marker that defines a major subclade of L448 (encompassing much more than a half of all L448 members). Thanks to some recent Big Y results, we have recently identified a new subclade of L448 (YP355) that encompasses at least clusters 8.B1 and 8.B3A, but since no member of 8.B5 from our project has ordered Big Y, we don't know if this particular cluster is YP355+.

    Clade L448 is also known as a "Young Scandinavian branch" (according to the classification by Rozhanskii and Klyosov) and is indeed commonly believed to have been spread over much of North-Western Europe with the Norse Viking migrations/invasions.

  6. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Michał For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (04-08-2014),  cmorley (04-08-2014),  Gray Fox (04-08-2014)

  7. #4
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    Many, many thanks to the both of you! I'll try to convince them to join the appropriate projects.
     
    Y-DNA : R1b-P312>DF27>Z196>L176.2>Z262>SRY2627*

    mtDNA : J1c8

    Lactase Persistence: rs4988235 - AA rs182549 - TT

    EEF 49.22068981
    WHG 35.89409732
    ANE 14.88521287


    Eurogenes K7:
    WHG 61.67%
    ENF 19.35%
    ANE 15.21%


    Ysearch - ky8wb

    ftdna - 151463

    23andMe - M936999

  8. #5
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    Michal,

    I guess I'm not surprised that 8.B.2 may not be included in YP355, is it to early to tell if a SNP test for that one?

    Tom

  9. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by IrishNorse View Post
    Michal,
    I guess I'm not surprised that 8.B.2 may not be included in YP355, is it to early to tell if a SNP test for that one?
    I would rather say that it seems quite likely that all known subclusters within the category 8.B (8.B1-8.B5) are a part of this new subclade YP355, but we won't know it until they test it.

  10. #7
    The other identified members of 8.B5 are Scandinavian; see page 5 of https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ion=ycolorized.

    Out of curiosity, Sam, do you see any patterns in 265363's closest matches' surnames and countries of origins? For instance, are the closest matches predominantly Scottish? Do any close matches have English surnames? Or are they all Scandinavian?

  11. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmorley View Post
    The other identified members of 8.B5 are Scandinavian; see page 5 of https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ion=ycolorized.

    Out of curiosity, Sam, do you see any patterns in 265363's closest matches' surnames and countries of origins? For instance, are the closest matches predominantly Scottish? Do any close matches have English surnames? Or are they all Scandinavian?
    I didn't fund the y-dna test, so I don't have access to his matches. I joined the Facebook group that this person belongs to and I'm trying to get more info from there. I'll post any match info that I get on here for comparison. There does seem to be some disagreement on where this line traces its ancestry. Everything I've read on them seems to suggest a Scottish origin, while members of the Facebook group seem to believe there was an English origin. Time will tell.
     
    Y-DNA : R1b-P312>DF27>Z196>L176.2>Z262>SRY2627*

    mtDNA : J1c8

    Lactase Persistence: rs4988235 - AA rs182549 - TT

    EEF 49.22068981
    WHG 35.89409732
    ANE 14.88521287


    Eurogenes K7:
    WHG 61.67%
    ENF 19.35%
    ANE 15.21%


    Ysearch - ky8wb

    ftdna - 151463

    23andMe - M936999

  12. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_Isaack View Post
    I didn't fund the y-dna test, so I don't have access to his matches. I joined the Facebook group that this person belongs to and I'm trying to get more info from there. I'll post any match info that I get on here for comparison. There does seem to be some disagreement on where this line traces its ancestry. Everything I've read on them seems to suggest a Scottish origin, while members of the Facebook group seem to believe there was an English origin. Time will tell.
    Thanks, Sam.

    Instead of "Scandinavian" I should have said "Nordic".

    If there are close British matches with uncommon surnames, check out their 1881 distributions using http://gbnames.publicprofiler.org/default.aspx . Any pattern?

  13. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmorley View Post
    Thanks, Sam.

    Instead of "Scandinavian" I should have said "Nordic".

    If there are close British matches with uncommon surnames, check out their 1881 distributions using http://gbnames.publicprofiler.org/default.aspx . Any pattern?
    You're welcome! I still haven't heard from said group or person yet. I often forget most people aren't as obsessed with this hobby as I am! So, maybe I'm being a bit impatient. I scanned through the Reid's who have accounts on Ysearch and discovered another branch of R1a1a Reid's reporting ancestry in Drainie, Moray, Scotland. This person has test results in the Reid dna project that are just above my supposed relatives. Their distance is enough that they aren't closely related, but I do suspect a split around the time the group adopted permanent surnames.
     
    Y-DNA : R1b-P312>DF27>Z196>L176.2>Z262>SRY2627*

    mtDNA : J1c8

    Lactase Persistence: rs4988235 - AA rs182549 - TT

    EEF 49.22068981
    WHG 35.89409732
    ANE 14.88521287


    Eurogenes K7:
    WHG 61.67%
    ENF 19.35%
    ANE 15.21%


    Ysearch - ky8wb

    ftdna - 151463

    23andMe - M936999

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