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Thread: Peloponnese DNA - 50% Maniot / 50% Ilia Perfecture

  1. #1
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    Peloponnese DNA - 50% Maniot / 50% Ilia Perfecture

    Hi everyone

    I have been reading the threads regularly and I am impressed by the quality of the conversations (most of the time ) and the knowledge of the regular posters.

    I noticed that few people wanted to see more Greek Maniot DNA data (my father is 100% from Laconian Mesa Mani from both sides of his family). I have been tested with FTDNA for Big- Y, Mtdna and also autosomal. I have also run the numbers through GEDMATCH, mytrueancestry, myheritage (results pending).

    I know some of the folks here have their own models etc and can run PCA analysis and what not. If someone is keen I am happy to share the raw data.

    Here are some results to kick this off:

    BIG Y results => J2a1 --> PF421 --> J-Y31951 (FTDNA) & J-Y31950 (Yfull) or FGC68843
    MtDNA results --> H1C

    Autosomal FTDNA

    79% Southern Europe
    -Greece & Balkans 71%
    - Italian Peninsula 7%
    Middle East & North Africa 21%
    -Middle East Anatolia, Armenia, & Mesopotamia 14%
    - Sephardic Jewish 5%
    - Druze <3%
    Arabia
    - Yemenite Jewish <1%

    Autosomal True Ancestry - Modern Populations

    1. Central_Greek (5.931)
    2. Greek_Crete (7.178)
    3. Ashkenazi (7.546)
    4. East_Sicilian (7.802)
    5. Greek_Islands (7.966)
    6. Greek (8.306)
    7. Italian_Abruzzo (8.900)
    8. South_Italian (9.221)

    I have also updated the PCA analysis from True Ancestry (or at least I think I did - first time posting on this forum).

    Thoughts / comments?
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Quote Originally Posted by tkofi View Post
    Hi everyone

    I have been reading the threads regularly and I am impressed by the quality of the conversations (most of the time ) and the knowledge of the regular posters.

    I noticed that few people wanted to see more Greek Maniot DNA data (my father is 100% from Laconian Mesa Mani from both sides of his family). I have been tested with FTDNA for Big- Y, Mtdna and also autosomal. I have also run the numbers through GEDMATCH, mytrueancestry, myheritage (results pending).

    I know some of the folks here have their own models etc and can run PCA analysis and what not. If someone is keen I am happy to share the raw data.

    Here are some results to kick this off:

    BIG Y results => J2a1 --> PF421 --> J-Y31951 (FTDNA) & J-Y31950 (Yfull) or FGC68843
    MtDNA results --> H1C

    Autosomal FTDNA

    79% Southern Europe
    -Greece & Balkans 71%
    - Italian Peninsula 7%
    Middle East & North Africa 21%
    -Middle East Anatolia, Armenia, & Mesopotamia 14%
    - Sephardic Jewish 5%
    - Druze <3%
    Arabia
    - Yemenite Jewish <1%

    Autosomal True Ancestry - Modern Populations

    1. Central_Greek (5.931)
    2. Greek_Crete (7.178)
    3. Ashkenazi (7.546)
    4. East_Sicilian (7.802)
    5. Greek_Islands (7.966)
    6. Greek (8.306)
    7. Italian_Abruzzo (8.900)
    8. South_Italian (9.221)

    I have also updated the PCA analysis from True Ancestry (or at least I think I did - first time posting on this forum).

    Thoughts / comments?
    Welcome, fellow J2a Laconian brother! Could you please post your Dodecad K12b results? Do you plan on ordering G25 coordinates?

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  5. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcelow View Post
    Welcome, fellow J2a Laconian brother! Could you please post your Dodecad K12b results? Do you plan on ordering G25 coordinates?
    Hi man,
    Thanks for the warm welcome. Not sure if i do this right for Dodecad. Here are the steps:

    -gedmatch
    - free tools
    - (admixture heritage)
    - select project : Dodecad
    - default selection "Admixture Proportions (With link to Oracle) "
    -select version/project : K12B

    Following this process here is what I get:

    # Population Percent
    1 Caucasus 36.55
    2 Atlantic_Med 22.38
    3 North_European 19.65
    4 Southwest_Asian 9.42
    5 Gedrosia 6.2
    6 Northwest_African 4.75
    7 East_Asian 0.57
    8 Siberian 0.47

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Greek (Dodecad) 7.13
    2 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 8.26
    3 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 9.12
    4 Sicilian (Dodecad) 10.53
    5 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 10.75
    6 C_Italian (Dodecad) 12.79
    7 O_Italian (Dodecad) 13.34
    8 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 14.66
    9 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 16.06
    10 Tuscan (HGDP) 16.25
    11 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 16.65
    12 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 17.29
    13 TSI30 (Metspalu) 17.38
    14 Turkish (Dodecad) 17.69
    15 Romanians (Behar) 17.95
    16 Cypriots (Behar) 19.82
    17 Turks (Behar) 20.03
    18 N_Italian (Dodecad) 22.27
    19 Lebanese (Behar) 23.09
    20 North_Italian (HGDP) 24.24

    Is that what you had in mind? I also did Oracle v4 or something . Results below:

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Greek_Dodecad @ 7.684463
    2 Ashkenazy_Jews_Behar @ 8.966168
    3 Ashkenazi_Dodecad @ 9.869077
    4 Sicilian_Dodecad @ 11.354768
    5 S_Italian_Sicilian_Dodecad @ 11.593687
    6 C_Italian_Dodecad @ 13.784843
    7 O_Italian_Dodecad @ 14.510560
    8 Sephardic_Jews_Behar @ 15.873102
    9 Tuscan_HGDP @ 17.537006
    10 Bulgarian_Dodecad @ 17.571768
    11 Bulgarians_Yunusbayev @ 18.179565
    12 Morocco_Jews_Behar @ 18.707062
    13 TSI30_Metspalu @ 18.794348
    14 Turkish_Dodecad @ 19.268847
    15 Romanians_Behar @ 19.653332
    16 Turks_Behar @ 21.751465
    17 Cypriots_Behar @ 21.754347
    18 N_Italian_Dodecad @ 24.264854
    19 Lebanese_Behar @ 24.817680
    20 North_Italian_HGDP @ 26.334408

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Bulgarian_Dodecad +50% Sephardic_Jews_Behar @ 4.788048


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Bulgarians_Yunusbayev +25% Morocco_Jews_Behar +25% Turks_Behar @ 2.957572


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    1 Abhkasians_Yunusbayev + Canarias_1000Genomes + Hungarians_Behar + Samaritians_Behar @ 2.222819
    2 Adygei_HGDP + Bulgarians_Yunusbayev + Castilla_Y_Leon_1000Genomes + Samaritians_Behar @ 2.440580
    3 Canarias_1000Genomes + Georgians_Behar + Hungarians_Behar + Samaritians_Behar @ 2.515424
    4 Adygei_HGDP + Bulgarians_Yunusbayev + Canarias_1000Genomes + Samaritians_Behar @ 2.539990
    5 Armenians_Behar + Morocco_Jews_Behar + Polish_Dodecad + Sicilian_Dodecad @ 2.543793
    6 Balkars_Yunusbayev + Bulgarians_Yunusbayev + Castilla_Y_Leon_1000Genomes + Samaritians_Behar @ 2.556934
    7 Adygei_HGDP + Bulgarians_Yunusbayev + Portuguese_Dodecad + Samaritians_Behar @ 2.584952
    8 Canarias_1000Genomes + Georgians_Behar + German_Dodecad + Samaritians_Behar @ 2.617464
    9 Adygei_HGDP + Canarias_1000Genomes + Romanians_Behar + Samaritians_Behar @ 2.641256
    10 Bulgarians_Yunusbayev + Castilla_Y_Leon_1000Genomes + North_Ossetians_Yunusbayev + Samaritians_Behar @ 2.652011
    11 Castilla_Y_Leon_1000Genomes + Georgians_Behar + Hungarians_Behar + Samaritians_Behar @ 2.662726
    12 Armenians_Behar + Greek_Dodecad + Hungarians_Behar + Morocco_Jews_Behar @ 2.683427
    13 Armenians_Behar + Morocco_Jews_Behar + Sicilian_Dodecad + Ukranians_Yunusbayev @ 2.683470
    14 Adygei_HGDP + Bulgarian_Dodecad + Castilla_Y_Leon_1000Genomes + Samaritians_Behar @ 2.692459
    15 Adygei_HGDP + Bulgarians_Yunusbayev + Samaritians_Behar + Spanish_Dodecad @ 2.720275
    16 Georgians_Behar + Hungarians_Behar + Portuguese_Dodecad + Samaritians_Behar @ 2.725828
    17 Abhkasians_Yunusbayev + Hungarians_Behar + Murcia_1000Genomes + Samaritians_Behar @ 2.726475
    18 Abhkasians_Yunusbayev + Castilla_Y_Leon_1000Genomes + Hungarians_Behar + Samaritians_Behar @ 2.727087
    19 Balkars_Yunusbayev + Bulgarian_Dodecad + Castilla_Y_Leon_1000Genomes + Samaritians_Behar @ 2.750077
    20 Balkars_Yunusbayev + Bulgarians_Yunusbayev + Samaritians_Behar + Spanish_Dodecad @ 2.756435


    I will get the coordinates. I presume it helps with further detailed analysis?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tkofi View Post
    Hi everyone

    I have been reading the threads regularly and I am impressed by the quality of the conversations (most of the time ) and the knowledge of the regular posters.

    I noticed that few people wanted to see more Greek Maniot DNA data (my father is 100% from Laconian Mesa Mani from both sides of his family). I have been tested with FTDNA for Big- Y, Mtdna and also autosomal. I have also run the numbers through GEDMATCH, mytrueancestry, myheritage (results pending).

    I know some of the folks here have their own models etc and can run PCA analysis and what not. If someone is keen I am happy to share the raw data.

    Here are some results to kick this off:

    BIG Y results => J2a1 --> PF421 --> J-Y31951 (FTDNA) & J-Y31950 (Yfull) or FGC68843
    MtDNA results --> H1C

    Autosomal FTDNA

    79% Southern Europe
    -Greece & Balkans 71%
    - Italian Peninsula 7%
    Middle East & North Africa 21%
    -Middle East Anatolia, Armenia, & Mesopotamia 14%
    - Sephardic Jewish 5%
    - Druze <3%
    Arabia
    - Yemenite Jewish <1%

    Autosomal True Ancestry - Modern Populations

    1. Central_Greek (5.931)
    2. Greek_Crete (7.178)
    3. Ashkenazi (7.546)
    4. East_Sicilian (7.802)
    5. Greek_Islands (7.966)
    6. Greek (8.306)
    7. Italian_Abruzzo (8.900)
    8. South_Italian (9.221)

    I have also updated the PCA analysis from True Ancestry (or at least I think I did - first time posting on this forum).

    Thoughts / comments?
    Welcome!

  8. #5
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    Here is how you plot compared to other Peloponnesians/Greeks. Despite your Ilian ancestry, you are distant from even the most southern shifted Peloponnesians. You are closest to the northernmost Cretans.

    Would it be possible to have your father tested?
    Last edited by Sorcelow; 05-18-2021 at 04:03 PM.

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  10. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcelow View Post


    Here is how you plot compared to other Peloponnesians/Greeks. Despite your Ilian ancestry, you are distant from even the most southern shifted Peloponnesians. You are closest to the northernmost Cretans.

    Would it be possible to have your father tested?


    Thanks so much my friend.

    Unfortunately not, but I can test my aunt (my dad's sister) who is 100% Maniot. Would that help? Any difference if it is the older sister vs. younger sister?

    When you talk about north and south do you refer literally to the location's geography? So what does the plot mean for me?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tkofi View Post

    # Population Percent
    1 Caucasus 36.55
    2 Atlantic_Med 22.38
    3 North_European 19.65
    4 Southwest_Asian 9.42
    5 Gedrosia 6.2
    6 Northwest_African 4.75
    7 East_Asian 0.57
    8 Siberian 0.47
    Those results are similar to mine. My family is from the NE Aegean islands (Fourni/Ikaria/Samos) Thanks for sharing, would you mind posting Eurogenes K15?

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 Caucasus 37.11
    2 Atlantic_Med 24.90
    3 North_European 15.82
    4 Southwest_Asian 12.96
    5 Gedrosia 5.45
    6 Northwest_African 3.44

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    Quote Originally Posted by tkofi View Post
    Thanks so much my friend.

    Unfortunately not, but I can test my aunt (my dad's sister) who is 100% Maniot. Would that help? Any difference if it is the older sister vs. younger sister?

    When you talk about north and south do you refer literally to the location's geography? So what does the plot mean for me?
    Yes, It would be great if you could test your aunt. I'm not sure how were results will differ from your fathers, but I suspect they would be very close considering they are siblings.

    When I say being northern or southern shifted, I am referring to your genetic distance in relationship to other Greeks. On a pca, certain Greek groups such as Cretans and other Aegean islanders plot closer to near eastern groups than do Peloponnesians, Thessalians, or Macedonians. And these near eastern groups are naturally positioned in more southern locations of the PCA.

    Hope that makes some sense. Someone on here can probably explain it better than I can.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greekscholar View Post
    Those results are similar to mine. My family is from the NE Aegean islands (Fourni/Ikaria/Samos) Thanks for sharing, would you mind posting Eurogenes K15?

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 Caucasus 37.11
    2 Atlantic_Med 24.90
    3 North_European 15.82
    4 Southwest_Asian 12.96
    5 Gedrosia 5.45
    6 Northwest_African 3.44

    Hi there

    Here are the Eurogenes EUtest v2 k15 results (I hope that's what you meant):

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Central_Greek @ 5.906805
    2 Ashkenazi @ 7.536741
    3 East_Sicilian @ 7.788183
    4 Greek @ 8.321873
    5 Italian_Abruzzo @ 8.889645
    6 South_Italian @ 9.216693
    7 Greek_Thessaly @ 10.736648
    8 West_Sicilian @ 11.767765
    9 Sephardic_Jewish @ 13.835996
    10 Italian_Jewish @ 13.993834
    11 Algerian_Jewish @ 15.419158
    12 Tuscan @ 15.735066
    13 Bulgarian @ 16.002621
    14 Turkish @ 17.270306
    15 Tunisian_Jewish @ 17.956125
    16 Cyprian @ 18.122393
    17 Romanian @ 18.797419
    18 Libyan_Jewish @ 20.037935
    19 Lebanese_Muslim @ 20.638344
    20 Syrian @ 21.650084

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Cyprian +50% Romanian @ 4.044709


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Greek +25% South_Italian +25% Turkish @ 3.156472


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    1 Georgian_Jewish + Greek + Greek + Greek @ 2.234121
    2 Armenian + Greek + Greek + Greek @ 2.466218
    3 Central_Greek + Greek + Greek + Turkish @ 2.593681
    4 Georgian_Jewish + Greek + Greek + Greek_Thessaly @ 2.640789
    5 Bulgarian + Georgian_Jewish + Greek + West_Sicilian @ 2.725512
    6 Bulgarian + Central_Greek + Georgian_Jewish + Greek @ 2.764057
    7 Ashkenazi + Greek + Greek + Turkish @ 2.787539
    8 Bulgarian + East_Sicilian + Georgian_Jewish + Greek @ 2.823544
    9 Bulgarian + Georgian_Jewish + Greek + South_Italian @ 2.853261
    10 Cyprian + Greek + Serbian + Turkish @ 2.872089
    11 Algerian_Jewish + Armenian + Bulgarian + Bulgarian @ 2.886799
    12 Armenian + Bulgarian + Greek + West_Sicilian @ 2.891560
    13 East_Sicilian + Greek + Greek + Turkish @ 2.903420
    14 Assyrian + Greek + Greek + Greek @ 2.907462
    15 Algerian_Jewish + Armenian + Greek + Romanian @ 2.929767
    16 Assyrian + Bulgarian + Central_Greek + Greek @ 2.929958
    17 Cyprian + Greek + Romanian + Turkish @ 2.957781
    18 Algerian_Jewish + Armenian + Greek + Serbian @ 2.979236
    19 Algerian_Jewish + Armenian + Bulgarian + Greek @ 3.001662
    20 Azeri + Central_Greek + Greek + Greek @ 3.014127

    by the way it seems like G25 coordinates are not sold at the moment by Davinski?
    https://bga101.blogspot.com/

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  18. #10
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    Could you post the individual components of these calculators as well and not just the oracle? How many SNPs?
     
    G25 Modern
    Distance: 1.4201% / 0.01420105
    Target: Markos_scaled
    41.5 Greek_Peloponnese
    39.5 Greek_Crete
    10.0 Roma_Barcelona
    9.0 Greek_Thessaly

    Eurogenes K13
    Distance: 1.6597% / 1.65965243
    Target: Markos | ADC: 0.25x RC
    50.0 Greek_West
    30.6 Greek_Andros
    10.6 Greek_Crete
    8.8 Roma_Greece


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