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Thread: How much Middle Eastern ancestry do Ashkenazim have?

  1. #431
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    Muslim Andalusi Iberia_Southeast_c.10-16CE:I12514 0.03148322

    Quote Originally Posted by Gentica277282 View Post
    When I model myself with them it’s a distance of 2.7 percent. They’re ibm is far too low at 23.6 percent ibm to be a viable option reference for us

    Target: Berber_Morocco_Riffian
    Distance: 2.9727% / 0.02972660
    96.2 AUT_Wels_o_NA
    1.8 ITA_Rome_MA
    1.2 ITA_Sardinia_EMA
    0.8 Kindoki_230BP

    Target: Me
    Distance: 2.4321% / 0.02432082
    74.6 AUT_Wels_o_NA
    15.6 SYR_Tell_Qarassa_Early_Antiquity
    9.8 Kindoki_230BP

    Target: Berber_Algeria_Mozabite
    Distance: 3.8874% / 0.03887406
    93.4 AUT_Wels_o_NA
    6.6 Kindoki_230BP

    Target: Berber_Algeria_Kabyle
    Distance: 2.6906% / 0.02690615
    93.8 AUT_Wels_o_NA
    3.0 ITA_Sardinia_EMA
    2.2 ITA_Rome_MA
    1.0 Kindoki_230BP

    Target: Berber_Morocco_Shilha_Tiznit
    Distance: 7.3406% / 0.07340604
    94.2 AUT_Wels_o_NA
    5.8 Kindoki_230BP

    Target: Berber_Morocco_Shilha
    Distance: 7.1183% / 0.07118345
    94.8 AUT_Wels_o_NA
    5.2 Kindoki_230BP

    Target: Berber_Tunisia_East_Zenati_Matmata
    Distance: 2.5784% / 0.02578423
    99.2 AUT_Wels_o_NA
    0.6 SYR_Tell_Qarassa_Early_Antiquity
    0.2 Kindoki_230BP
    Thanks, i understand, but i don't think all ancient north africans (from antiquity and before) had strong IBM like Guanches and the same north african profile, in fact it's the same situation actually.
    Last edited by Aben Aboo; 09-30-2022 at 07:08 AM.
    Average modern Pops

    Distance: 1.8718% / 0.01871759
    22.2 French_South
    19.8 French_Brittany
    19.6 Mozabite
    12.0 French_Seine-Maritime
    11.8 Polish_Kashubian
    8.0 Sicilian_East
    6.6 Sardinian

    + Basque:
    Distance: 1.6764% / 0.01676430
    34.0 Basque_French
    19.0 Mozabite
    14.0 French_Brittany
    14.0 Sicilian_East
    12.6 Polish_Kashubian
    6.4 French_Seine-Maritime

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Aben Aboo For This Useful Post:

     Gentica277282 (09-30-2022)

  3. #432
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gentica277282 View Post
    He doesnít have enough ibm to represent North Africans and he seems very mixed


    A model with that sample is a complete failure
    What is your Ethnicity may i ask?

  4. #433
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claudio View Post
    What is your Ethnicity may i ask?
    I’m arab

    The difference in Neolithic Levantine admixture of a modern arab and me isn’t much considering modern Arabs have up to 30 percent Iranian Neolithic or more

    Saudi derived more than half of their ancestry from Levant_N (63.4%), and the rest from Iran_N (36.1%) and Yoruba (0.5%)

    Ancient Bedouins

    The two historic Syrian samples derive the majority of their ancestry from Neolithic Levantine populations (Levant_N, 91.3%) as well as minor proportions from Neolithic Iran (Iran_N, 4.1%) and European hunter-gatherers (WHG, 4.6%)

    I’m about 40 percent Levant ppnb and 50 percent when removing eef which is still an acceptable fit for me meaning the difference is around 10-20 percent

    Modern Arabs will have even less admixture if they find an ancient sample predating natufian in the peninsular, which I would assume would be Arabian hunter gatherers

    I’m also fairly certain early natufians would have plot closer to us, what we have access to in g25 is not a representation of all natufians
    Last edited by Gentica277282; 09-30-2022 at 11:21 AM.
    With high coverage Guanche sample 011
    SUCCESS p=.985
    55 Guanche.SG_11
    32 Canaanite_MLBA
    13 COG_MatangaiTuru_IA

    SUCCESS p=.978
    50 Guanche.SG_11
    40 BedouinB.DG
    11 COG_MatangaiTuru_IA

    G25 results

    Target: Me
    Distance: 1.4691% / 0.01469064 | R5P
    52.8 Berber_MAR_TIZ
    21.2 Yemenite_Mahra
    17.8 Greek_Cyclades_Amorgos
    5.4 Yoruba
    2.8 Bulala





    R11109 MALE 1 CE 1749.5 400 CE ARCHAEOLOGY Isola_Sacra Y-DNA: J-Y15222 mtDNA: X2m'n

  5. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Gentica277282 For This Useful Post:

     Claudio (09-30-2022),  Freb (09-30-2022)

  6. #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gentica277282 View Post
    I’m arab

    The difference in Neolithic Levantine admixture of a modern arab and me isn’t much considering modern Arabs have up to 30 percent Iranian Neolithic or more

    Saudi derived more than half of their ancestry from Levant_N (63.4%), and the rest from Iran_N (36.1%) and Yoruba (0.5%)

    Ancient Bedouins

    The two historic Syrian samples derive the majority of their ancestry from Neolithic Levantine populations (Levant_N, 91.3%) as well as minor proportions from Neolithic Iran (Iran_N, 4.1%) and European hunter-gatherers (WHG, 4.6%)

    I’m about 40 percent Levant ppnb and 50 percent when removing eef which is still an acceptable fit for me meaning the difference is around 10-20 percent

    Modern Arabs will have even less admixture if they find an ancient sample predating natufian in the peninsular, which I would assume would be Arabian hunter gatherers

    I’m also fairly certain early natufians would have plot closer to us, what we have access to in g25 is not a representation of all natufians
    Ok you identify as Arab.
    But I ment which country are you from?

  7. #435
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claudio View Post
    Ok you identify as Arab.
    But I ment which country are you from?
    Morocco
    With high coverage Guanche sample 011
    SUCCESS p=.985
    55 Guanche.SG_11
    32 Canaanite_MLBA
    13 COG_MatangaiTuru_IA

    SUCCESS p=.978
    50 Guanche.SG_11
    40 BedouinB.DG
    11 COG_MatangaiTuru_IA

    G25 results

    Target: Me
    Distance: 1.4691% / 0.01469064 | R5P
    52.8 Berber_MAR_TIZ
    21.2 Yemenite_Mahra
    17.8 Greek_Cyclades_Amorgos
    5.4 Yoruba
    2.8 Bulala





    R11109 MALE 1 CE 1749.5 400 CE ARCHAEOLOGY Isola_Sacra Y-DNA: J-Y15222 mtDNA: X2m'n

  8. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levantine_Viking View Post
    Sorry the last comment was foe you not Claudio

    I am asking again, why are you including imperial roman samples well knowing that muddies how much levantine Jews have in their breakdown?
    Maybe Gentica is implying that some Levantine was mediated into Ashkenazim via Gentile Imperial Romans?

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to Claudio For This Useful Post:

     Gentica277282 (09-30-2022)

  10. #437
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aben Aboo View Post
    Thanks, i understand, but i don't think all ancient north africans (from antiquity and before) had strong IBM like Guanches and the same north african profile, in fact it's the same situation actually.
    I’m sure there are two Byzantine era samples found in a Basilica complex in modern Turkey that many have speculated could be Byzantine era Libyan North Africans (I forget the name of the two samples- very Levantine & Egyptian shifted)
    Last edited by Claudio; 09-30-2022 at 04:31 PM.

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to Claudio For This Useful Post:

     Gentica277282 (09-30-2022)

  12. #438
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gentica277282 View Post
    Morocco
    Ok so Genetically you are Berber not Arabian no?

  13. #439
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    Libya
    Ethnicity
    North African
    Nationality
    Libyan
    aDNA Match (1st)
    Austria_Wels:R10667
    aDNA Match (2nd)
    Algeria_Necropole_Orientale:R10770
    aDNA Match (3rd)
    Guanche:gun008
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-FT458078
    mtDNA (M)
    H65a

    African Union
    Quote Originally Posted by Claudio View Post
    Iím sure there are two Byzantine era samples found in a Basilica complex in modern Turkey that many have speculated could be Byzantine era Libyan North Africans (I forget the name of the two samples- very Levantine & Egyptian shifted)
    yeah the TUR_Marmara_İznik_Basilica_RomByz_B samples, they also were levant shifted


    Code:
    TUR_Marmara_İznik_Basilica_RomByz_B:I8369,0.039838 088,0.14420518,-0.038843429,-0.088179423,0.014771995,-0.034303551,-0.011985543,-0.0025383558,0.042745482,0.014396653,0.005358818,-0.009141863,0.028988834,0.0026148308,0.0001357203,-0.01312637,-0.019296839,-0.0070945613,-0.022625649,0.0027513197,-0.0067381095,-0.012241621,0.0064088813,-0.0066274429,0.0038319916
    TUR_Marmara_İznik_Basilica_RomByz_B:I8372,0.028455 777,0.14217412,-0.035072222,-0.09173244,0.013540996,-0.035698004,-0.013160596,-0.0062305096,0.052562626,0.019134792,0.011204801,-0.011689595,0.023637049,-0.0049544162,0.0082789383,0.0018562543,0.007692658 8,-0.011528662,-0.017346331,0.011755639,-0.0061142105,-0.014467371,0.0055461473,-0.0030124741,0.00023949948
    Target: abceff
    Distance: 1.6043% / 0.01604301
    43.6 Tunisian_Berber_Zraoua
    26.2 Tunisian_Jew
    24.0 Berber_Tunisia_Sen
    3.8 Bantu_Kenya
    2.4 Dinka


    Distance to: abceff
    0.01873718 23.40% Tunisian_Jew:TunisianJew1511 + 76.60% Moroccan:MCA16

  14. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Abceff For This Useful Post:

     Aben Aboo (10-01-2022),  Claudio (09-30-2022)

  15. #440
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    L1b2a

    Quote Originally Posted by Claudio View Post
    Ok so Genetically you are Berber not Arabian no?
    No I don’t have the genetic profile of a Berber.
    With high coverage Guanche sample 011
    SUCCESS p=.985
    55 Guanche.SG_11
    32 Canaanite_MLBA
    13 COG_MatangaiTuru_IA

    SUCCESS p=.978
    50 Guanche.SG_11
    40 BedouinB.DG
    11 COG_MatangaiTuru_IA

    G25 results

    Target: Me
    Distance: 1.4691% / 0.01469064 | R5P
    52.8 Berber_MAR_TIZ
    21.2 Yemenite_Mahra
    17.8 Greek_Cyclades_Amorgos
    5.4 Yoruba
    2.8 Bulala





    R11109 MALE 1 CE 1749.5 400 CE ARCHAEOLOGY Isola_Sacra Y-DNA: J-Y15222 mtDNA: X2m'n

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