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Thread: How much Middle Eastern ancestry do Ashkenazim have?

  1. #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by passenger View Post
    What is "Imperial Roman Mixed" in this model? I'd be very wary about using such a reference for these purposes, given that it's bound to overlap with multiple East Mediterranean populations, and possibly includes individuals who themselves were Roman-era Jews.
    It was an online model I saw. How much more Levantine would you say Ashkenazi Jews are then Sicilians?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Claudio View Post
    Mama Mia!
    Jews are much more than 25 percent lecqntine more like 30 to 40 percent. Why do you include these populations st all, when we are trying to breakdown the middle Eastern/ western Asian/ north adrican ancestry of Jews?

  3. #413
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gentica277282 View Post
    This is a model I found online

    Target: Sicilian_West
    Distance: 0.9702% / 0.00970246
    35.4 Imperial_Roman_mixed
    20.8 Iberia
    20.8 Levante
    5.8 Pannonian_IA
    4.4 Slavic
    4.0 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
    4.0 Italic_Etruscan_IA
    3.6 Balkan_IA_West
    0.6 Balkan_IA_East
    0.4 Yoruba
    0.2 North_and_East_Asian

    Target: Sicilian_East
    Distance: 0.9875% / 0.00987530
    36.4 Imperial_Roman_mixed
    16.8 Balkan_IA_West
    15.6 Levante
    11.6 Italic_Etruscan_IA
    8.6 Balkan_IA_East
    7.4 Germanic_Celtic
    1.2 Iberia
    1.0 Pannonian_IA
    0.6 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
    0.4 North_and_East_Asian
    0.4 Yoruba

    Target: Ashkenazi_Ukraine
    Distance: 0.7209% / 0.00720863
    37.4 Imperial_Roman_mixed
    22.8 Levante
    14.0 Balkan_IA_West
    12.4 Germanic_Celtic
    5.0 Slavic
    4.4 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
    2.2 Italic_Etruscan_IA
    1.8 North_and_East_Asian

    Target: Ashkenazi_Russia
    Distance: 0.7297% / 0.00729673
    36.8 Imperial_Roman_mixed
    24.0 Levante
    11.8 Germanic_Celtic
    10.4 Balkan_IA_West
    7.2 Slavic
    5.0 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
    2.4 Balkan_IA_East
    2.4 North_and_East_Asian

    Target: Ashkenazi_Poland
    Distance: 0.7137% / 0.00713683
    38.8 Imperial_Roman_mixed
    23.0 Levante
    14.6 Balkan_IA_West
    10.6 Germanic_Celtic
    5.6 Slavic
    4.6 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
    1.6 North_and_East_Asian
    1.2 Italic_Etruscan_IA

    Target: Ashkenazi_Lithuania
    Distance: 0.6430% / 0.00642968
    33.6 Imperial_Roman_mixed
    27.4 Levante
    21.0 Germanic_Celtic
    6.6 Slavic
    5.8 Balkan_IA_East
    4.4 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
    1.2 North_and_East_Asian

    Target: Ashkenazi_Germany
    Distance: 0.5890% / 0.00588975
    33.6 Imperial_Roman_mixed
    29.8 Levante
    7.0 Germanic_Celtic
    6.8 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
    6.4 Balkan_IA_East
    5.4 Balkan_IA_West
    5.4 Italic_Etruscan_IA
    5.0 Slavic
    0.4 TUR_Ottoman
    0.2 North_and_East_Asian

    Target: Ashkenazi_Belarussia
    Distance: 0.4913% / 0.00491262
    38.4 Imperial_Roman_mixed
    23.6 Germanic_Celtic
    23.0 Levante
    6.8 Balkan_IA_East
    4.2 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
    2.6 Slavic
    1.4 North_and_East_Asian
    Sorry the last comment was foe you not Claudio

    I am asking again, why are you including imperial roman samples well knowing that muddies how much levantine Jews have in their breakdown?

  4. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gentica277282 View Post
    It was an online model I saw. How much more Levantine would you say Ashkenazi Jews are then Sicilians?
    Corrected the model for you

    Target: Mom_scaled
    Distance: 1.8508% / 0.01850753
    47.0 Greek_and_Balkan
    33.8 Levant_Megiddo_MLBA
    8.6 North_Africa
    5.4 Baltic
    5.2 CentralAsia

    Target: Mom_Brother
    Distance: 2.0428% / 0.02042805
    44.2 Levant_Megiddo_MLBA
    41.8 Greek_and_Balkan
    5.8 CentralAsia
    4.6 Slavic
    3.6 North_Africa

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  6. #415
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levantine_Viking View Post
    Corrected the model for you

    Target: Mom_scaled
    Distance: 1.8508% / 0.01850753
    47.0 Greek_and_Balkan
    33.8 Levant_Megiddo_MLBA
    8.6 North_Africa
    5.4 Baltic
    5.2 CentralAsia

    Target: Mom_Brother
    Distance: 2.0428% / 0.02042805
    44.2 Levant_Megiddo_MLBA
    41.8 Greek_and_Balkan
    5.8 CentralAsia
    4.6 Slavic
    3.6 North_Africa
    isn't the distance a little high? can you post that model please thanks

  7. #416
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gentica277282 View Post
    isn't the distance a little high? can you post that model please thanks
    The Distance is totally fine. Much better than 0.4 Distance if you are trying to avoid overlap. Imperial Rome samples are east med anatolians whom contain Greek, anatoloan BA, and levantine.

    Try this instead

    Feel free to replace samaritan with megiddo if you want

    Levantine:Samaritan,0.0853674,0.1486734,-0.0573978,-0.0925072,-0.0096018,-0.0350286,-0.002209,-0.0081688,0.016321,0.008237,0.0091586,-0.0099212,0.0204854,0.0118632,-0.0055372,0.0021214,-0.011239,0.0010134,0.0021116,-0.003652,-0.0005242,0.003116,0.000567,-0.0029402,0.0046462
    Central Asia:KAZ_Karakhanid,0.065638,-0.1736557,0.0275297,0.005168,-0.0478037,-0.0065073,0.0060317,0.0012307,-0.0116577,-0.0121493,-0.017484,-0.004496,0.0026263,-0.009909,0.009772,0.004552,-0.0069973,0.000718,0.002053,0.0020427,-0.012894,0.003215,-0.0048477,-0.0045787,-0.00475
    Slavic:CZE_Early_Slav,0.12862,0.129988,0.068259,0. 046835,0.02739,0.013387,0.007285,0.014076,-0.001841,-0.018406,-0.000812,-0.004346,0.003717,0.007156,-0.010993,-0.003182,0.011604,-0.002027,-0.002388,-0.004752,0.005615,0.000618,0.001725,-0.000964,-0.006706
    Baltic:Baltic_LTU_Late_Antiquity_low_res,0.138864, 0.118817,0.096543,0.099484,0.061242,0.048527,0.016 686,0.026307,-0.004704,-0.043919,-0.005359,-0.025927,0.042368,0.034681,0.0095,0.004375,-0.008736,0.003421,0.002891,-0.00963,0.013102,-0.018053,0.013927,-0.012411,0.002395
    GermanicEU_MA,0.1223596,0.1303939,0.061169,0.048773,0.0397 92,0.0199408,0.010975,0.0052151,0.0013295,-0.0024966,-0.003735,0.001109,-0.0091576,-0.0038398,0.0161643,-0.0008352,-0.0133511,0.0032684,0.0041354,0.0040271,0.0060019, 0.0037342,-0.0007273,0.011146,-0.0004429
    Southern_France:FRA_SouthEast_IA2,0.1274816,0.1464 394,0.0609428,0.0139536,0.0461622,0.0001116,0.0007 99,0.003877,0.018448,0.0350988,-0.0019164,0.0130684,-0.020188,-0.0122206,0.0103692,0.0010872,-0.0034682,0.0030912,0.0022876,3e-04,0.002346,0.0029676,-0.0042398,-0.0011808,-0.0028502
    North_Africa:Canary_Islands_Guanche,-0.0393828,0.1314096,-0.0023384,-0.0687344,0.0337292,-0.0363672,-0.0299874,0.008261,0.0708878,0.0305428,0.0075674,-0.0059948,0.0182554,-0.0176982,0.0232082,-0.0130468,0.0031814,-0.019206,-0.044321,0.010405,-0.0134762,-0.0377142,0.0232692,-0.0011806,0.0046224
    Greek_and_Balkan:MKD_Hellenistic,0.1281648,0.15212 64,0.0244372,-0.01938,0.0302208,-0.0074184,-0.000188,-0.0035538,0.0062994,0.0305064,0.0013962,0.0065042,-0.0146878,-0.003468,-0.0097718,-0.0031024,0.004407,0.0022804,0.0056312,-0.0106802,-0.0103816,0.0006676,0.000789,0.003687,-0.002802
    CHN_Chuanyun_Historic,0.018212,-0.447848,-0.009428,-0.072998,0.07663,0.041276,-0.00705,-0.011076,-0.016771,-0.00492,-0.05164,-0.008243,0.005946,-0.003303,0.003393,-0.00769,-0.000913,0.003294,0.003897,-0.014007,0.010856,-0.002349,0.014913,-0.006145,-0.012933

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  9. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gentica277282 View Post
    isn't the distance a little high? can you post that model please thanks
    In fact my mom has better distance using samaritan
    Target: Mom_scaled
    Distance: 1.3917% / 0.01391659
    40.2 Levantine
    36.6 Greek_and_Balkan
    7.4 Southern_France
    6.4 North_Africa
    5.8 CentralAsia
    3.2 Baltic
    0.4 Germanic

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  11. #418
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gentica277282 View Post
    It was an online model I saw. How much more Levantine would you say Ashkenazi Jews are then Sicilians?
    I'm not the best person to answer that question, and there are multiple complex variables involved. But I also don't think the question is that pertinent. Although Ashkenazim have a Southern European component, part of which very likely came via late Roman/early medieval Southern Italy, they are not descended from modern Sicilians, so I'm not sure what point there is in comparing the two. It seems that the implication in using that approach is to try to differentiate between "direct" Levantine ancestry in Ashkenazim and "indirect" ancestry mediated through their Southern European ancestors, but this approach doesn't work.

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  13. #419
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    Quote Originally Posted by passenger View Post
    I'm not the best person to answer that question, and there are multiple complex variables involved. But I also don't think the question is that pertinent. Although Ashkenazim have a Southern European component, part of which very likely came via late Roman/early medieval Southern Italy, they are not descended from modern Sicilians, so I'm not sure what point there is in comparing the two. It seems that the implication in using that approach is to try to differentiate between "direct" Levantine ancestry in Ashkenazim and "indirect" ancestry mediated through their Southern European ancestors, but this approach doesn't work.
    Yeah I agree the two are not related despite sharing similarities.

  14. #420
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levantine_Viking View Post
    The Distance is totally fine. Much better than 0.4 Distance if you are trying to avoid overlap. Imperial Rome samples are east med anatolians whom contain Greek, anatoloan BA, and levantine.

    Try this instead

    Feel free to replace samaritan with megiddo if you want

    Levantine:Samaritan,0.0853674,0.1486734,-0.0573978,-0.0925072,-0.0096018,-0.0350286,-0.002209,-0.0081688,0.016321,0.008237,0.0091586,-0.0099212,0.0204854,0.0118632,-0.0055372,0.0021214,-0.011239,0.0010134,0.0021116,-0.003652,-0.0005242,0.003116,0.000567,-0.0029402,0.0046462
    Central Asia:KAZ_Karakhanid,0.065638,-0.1736557,0.0275297,0.005168,-0.0478037,-0.0065073,0.0060317,0.0012307,-0.0116577,-0.0121493,-0.017484,-0.004496,0.0026263,-0.009909,0.009772,0.004552,-0.0069973,0.000718,0.002053,0.0020427,-0.012894,0.003215,-0.0048477,-0.0045787,-0.00475
    Slavic:CZE_Early_Slav,0.12862,0.129988,0.068259,0. 046835,0.02739,0.013387,0.007285,0.014076,-0.001841,-0.018406,-0.000812,-0.004346,0.003717,0.007156,-0.010993,-0.003182,0.011604,-0.002027,-0.002388,-0.004752,0.005615,0.000618,0.001725,-0.000964,-0.006706
    Baltic:Baltic_LTU_Late_Antiquity_low_res,0.138864, 0.118817,0.096543,0.099484,0.061242,0.048527,0.016 686,0.026307,-0.004704,-0.043919,-0.005359,-0.025927,0.042368,0.034681,0.0095,0.004375,-0.008736,0.003421,0.002891,-0.00963,0.013102,-0.018053,0.013927,-0.012411,0.002395
    GermanicEU_MA,0.1223596,0.1303939,0.061169,0.048773,0.0397 92,0.0199408,0.010975,0.0052151,0.0013295,-0.0024966,-0.003735,0.001109,-0.0091576,-0.0038398,0.0161643,-0.0008352,-0.0133511,0.0032684,0.0041354,0.0040271,0.0060019, 0.0037342,-0.0007273,0.011146,-0.0004429
    Southern_France:FRA_SouthEast_IA2,0.1274816,0.1464 394,0.0609428,0.0139536,0.0461622,0.0001116,0.0007 99,0.003877,0.018448,0.0350988,-0.0019164,0.0130684,-0.020188,-0.0122206,0.0103692,0.0010872,-0.0034682,0.0030912,0.0022876,3e-04,0.002346,0.0029676,-0.0042398,-0.0011808,-0.0028502
    North_Africa:Canary_Islands_Guanche,-0.0393828,0.1314096,-0.0023384,-0.0687344,0.0337292,-0.0363672,-0.0299874,0.008261,0.0708878,0.0305428,0.0075674,-0.0059948,0.0182554,-0.0176982,0.0232082,-0.0130468,0.0031814,-0.019206,-0.044321,0.010405,-0.0134762,-0.0377142,0.0232692,-0.0011806,0.0046224
    Greek_and_Balkan:MKD_Hellenistic,0.1281648,0.15212 64,0.0244372,-0.01938,0.0302208,-0.0074184,-0.000188,-0.0035538,0.0062994,0.0305064,0.0013962,0.0065042,-0.0146878,-0.003468,-0.0097718,-0.0031024,0.004407,0.0022804,0.0056312,-0.0106802,-0.0103816,0.0006676,0.000789,0.003687,-0.002802
    CHN_Chuanyun_Historic,0.018212,-0.447848,-0.009428,-0.072998,0.07663,0.041276,-0.00705,-0.011076,-0.016771,-0.00492,-0.05164,-0.008243,0.005946,-0.003303,0.003393,-0.00769,-0.000913,0.003294,0.003897,-0.014007,0.010856,-0.002349,0.014913,-0.006145,-0.012933
    Target: Me
    Distance: 1.2804% / 0.01280423
    63.2 North_Africa
    26.6 Levant_JOR_EBA
    10.2 COG_NgongoMbata_220BP

    The North African sample is quiet similar to modern north Africans so of course it would absorb most of my ancestry

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