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Thread: The deep population history of northern East Asia from the Late Pleistocene to the

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kale View Post
    C1a is old enough to have been present in the ancestors of East and West Eurasians before they split. It is the same age as K2, which as we know is present in early East Eurasians like Tianyuan and Oase, as well as generic Eurasian Ust-Ishim.
    Why Oase1 belongs to East Eurasian? Ust-Ishim and Oase1's paternal closest downstream relative is found in India - K2a-Y28299, K2a-MY1504, and India people shouldn't be considered East Eurasian - South Eurasian is better.

    IMO Ust-Ishim, IUP Bacho Kiro and Oase1 all came from South Asia, but problemetic qpGraphs interpret IUP Bacho Kiro and Oase1 as East Eurasian.

    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....ier-et-al-2022

    1219 Hajdinjak et al. (2021)’s published graph had the following notable features that were interpreted by
    1220 the authors and used to support some conclusions of the study (Table 2): 1) there are gene flows
    1221 from the lineage found in the ~45,000-43,000-years-old Bacho Kiro Initial Upper Paleolithic (IUP)
    1222 individuals to the Ust’-Ishim, Tianyuan, and GoyetQ116-1 lineages; 2) the ~35,000-years-old Bacho
    1223 Kiro Cave individual BK1653 belonged to a population that was related, but not identical, to that of
    1224 the GoyetQ116-1 individual; and 3) the Vestonice16 lineage is a mixture of a Sunghir-related and a
    1225 BK1653-related lineage. To assess if these features are supported by our re-analysis, we focused on
    1226 our most constrained findGraphs run: with chimpanzee set as an outgroup and with the topology
    1227 constraints applied at the topology search step. We identified 1,421 topologies fitting nominally or
    1228 significantly better than the published model and satisfying the constraints and moved on to inspect
    1229 50 best-fitting topologies for temporal plausibility (all of them fitting significantly better than the
    1230 published model)...

    1240 ...Of the 50 topologies inspected, 32 were considered temporally plausible. Of those topologies, none
    1241 supported feature 1 of the published admixture graph (there is no replication of the finding of gene
    1242 flows from the Bacho Kiro IUP lineage specifically into all three of the Ust’-Ishim, Tianyuan, and
    1243 GoyetQ116-1 lineages).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eurasia View Post
    Why Oase1 belongs to East Eurasian? Ust-Ishim and Oase1's paternal closest downstream relative is found in India - K2a-Y28299, K2a-MY1504, and India people shouldn't be considered East Eurasian - South Eurasian is better.

    IMO Ust-Ishim, IUP Bacho Kiro and Oase1 all came from South Asia, but problemetic qpGraphs interpret IUP Bacho Kiro and Oase1 as East Eurasian.

    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....ier-et-al-2022
    They have no necessity to come from South Asia as much as South Asia might have had relatives of such populations. It's likely that they came from the Middle East when Humans started colonizing Eurasia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Norfern-Ostrobothnian View Post
    They have no necessity to come from South Asia as much as South Asia might have had relatives of such populations. It's likely that they came from the Middle East when Humans started colonizing Eurasia.
    Which route do you suggest, Middle East--Turkey--Romania or Middle East--Caucasus--SW Russia--Romania or India--Central Asia--West Russia--Romania?
    India has some C and K, Ust'-Ishim and Oase1 belongs to K2a; IUP Bacho Kiros have two pre-C-M130, one (pre-)C1-F3393, one pre-F-Y27277, one F-M89, as inferred by Pribislav. IMO South Asia is the best candidate.

    Southeast Asia is possibly the homeland of mtDNA-M,N, while Middle East is the homeland of Y-DE/mtDNA-pre-L3. (Carriers of mitochondrial DNA macrohaplogroup L3 basal lineages migrated back to Africa from Asia around 70,000 years ago) So the origin of K2a is not affected by the out-of-Africa event that happend long ago.
    Last edited by Eurasia; 05-27-2022 at 01:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eurasia View Post
    Why Oase1 belongs to East Eurasian? Ust-Ishim and Oase1's paternal closest downstream relative is found in India - K2a-Y28299, K2a-MY1504, and India people shouldn't be considered East Eurasian - South Eurasian is better.

    IMO Ust-Ishim, IUP Bacho Kiro and Oase1 all came from South Asia, but problemetic qpGraphs interpret IUP Bacho Kiro and Oase1 as East Eurasian.

    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....ier-et-al-2022
    Genetically, Oase1, the non-Western portion of Indian ancestry, Tianyuan, Onge, Han, etc. all belong to a macro-branch that today is found predominantly in the Eastern half of Eurasian continent.
    It's helpful to call things by such a convenient and relatively accurate term, rather than labeling it say, 'Genetic macro-branch 7' or something.
    Collection of 14,000 d-stats: Hidden Content Part 2: Hidden Content Part 3: Hidden Content PM me for d-stats, qpadm, qpgraph, or f3-outgroup nmonte models.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eurasia View Post
    Ust-Ishim and Oase1's paternal closest downstream relative is found in India - K2a-Y28299, K2a-MY1504, and India people shouldn't be considered East Eurasian - South Eurasian is better.
    The minor K2a branches in India and Southeast Asia are not closer to Ust Ishim than regular N and O are (he is basal to all of them).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalophias View Post
    The minor K2a branches in India and Southeast Asia are not closer to Ust Ishim than regular N and O are (he is basal to all of them).
    The TMRCA of K2a-MY1503 is closer to TMRCA of K2a-M2335 than NO. Based on the distribution of IJ, HL, K2a-M2308 was possibly born in India or around.

    In the paper below, K2a-Y28299 is named NO2b-MY1504, and is found in Telugu.
    https://academic.oup.com/mbe/article...sac045/6539761

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kapisa View Post
    Thanks for sharing. Does this 23mofang database also include a phylogenetic tree of mitochondrial haplogroups?
    Since I have posted my estimates of the proportions of various clades of Y-DNA among the Chinese based on my counting of the members on the phylogenetic tree at 23mofang, someone at the company has got around to publishing their own estimates. They seem to have taken geographic sampling bias into account when calculating their estimates.

    This is 23mofang's current comment regarding haplogroup R1a-M417:

    支系历史
    R-M417 是 R1a 下的一个重要分支,也是如今东欧人群最主要的父系类型。该类型下游在青铜时代出现显著扩张,形成了多个人口 爆发的支系。而在中国的 R-M417 人群则主要是在各历史时期下从西域迁入的,目前约占全国男性人口的 1.12%。
    "Branch History
    R-M417 is an important subclade under R1a and is today the predominant paternal type in Eastern European populations. [Some] downstream [branches] of this type expanded significantly during the Bronze Age, forming multiple subpopulations that grew explosively. The R-M417 population in China has mainly migrated from the Western Regions during various historical periods, and currently accounts for about 1.12% of the national male population."

    So, as one might expect from the fact that R1a (like other Y-DNA haplogroups of Western Eurasian origin) tends to be distributed most densely in parts of China that are underrepresented in the 23mofang database, 23mofang's official estimate of the frequency of this clade in China is somewhat greater than the unadjusted figure that I have posted previously in this thread.

    Either way, it is clear that Y-DNA haplogroup R1a should account for about one percent of all males in China; the probability that this haplogroup might account for significantly less than one percent of the male population of China should be very low at this point, considering the volume and geographic coverage of 23mofang's database.

    Following are 23mofang's comments about some other subclades of Y-DNA haplogroup R:

    支系历史
    R-PH155 是 R-M343 下的一个分支,目前主要分布于中东地区,在中国的新疆亦有零星分布,约占全国男性人口的 0.09%。
    "Branch History
    R-PH155 is a branch under R-M343 and is currently mainly distributed in the Middle East, with sporadic distribution in Xinjiang, China, accounting for about 0.09% of the national male population."

    支系历史
    R-V1636 是 R-M343 下的一个分支,目前主要分布于中东及欧洲地区,在中国的北部亦有零星分布,约占全国男性人口的 0.02%。
    "Branch History
    R-V1636 is a branch of R-M343, currently mainly distributed in the Middle East and Europe, and also scattered in northern China, accounting for about 0.02% of the national male population."

    支系历史
    R-M478 是 R-M343 下的一个分支,该类型在历史上参与了突厥语人群的形成与分化,目前广泛的分布于东欧至中亚、北亚一带,在中 国的西北部亦有零星分布,约占全国男性人口的 0.09%。
    "Branch History
    R-M478 is a branch under R-M343. This type historically has participated in the formation and diversification of Turkic populations. It is currently widely distributed from Eastern Europe to Central Asia and North Asia, and is also scattered in the northwest of China, accounting for about 0.09% of the national male population."

    支系历史
    R-M269 是 R-M343 下的一个重要分支,据推测,该类型可能是从黑海北岸一路向西迁徙扩张,成为如今西欧人群最主要的父系类型。 而在中国的 R-M269 主体人群则可能是在各历史时期下迁入的,目前约占全国男性人口的 0.23%。
    "Branch History
    R-M269 is an important branch under R-M343. It is speculated that this type may have migrated and expanded westward from the north coast of the Black Sea to become the most important paternal type among the present-day Western European population. The main population of R-M269 in China may have immigrated in various historical periods, and it currently accounts for about 0.23% of the national male population."

    支系历史
    R-M124 是 R 系下的一个重要分支,目前主要分布于南亚及中东地区,在中国的西北部亦有少量分布,约占全国男 性人口的 0.11%。
    "Branch History
    R-M124 is an important branch of the R lineage. Currently, it is mainly distributed in South Asia and the Middle East. It also has a small distribution in the northwestern part of China, accounting for about 0.11% of the national male population."

    支系历史
    R-FGC50368 是 R 系下的一个分支,目前主要分布于南亚地区,在中国的新疆亦有零星分布,约占全国男性人口的 0.03%。
    "Branch History
    R-FGC50368 is a branch of the R lineage. Currently, it is mainly distributed in South Asia and is also scattered in Xinjiang, China, accounting for about 0.03% of the national male population."

    R
    共祖时间距今 28990 年

    支系历史
    遗传标记 R 是 K2 下分化的一个重要类型,该类型下的人群如今主要集中于印欧语系人群中,推测最早是由中亚或北亚地区向欧洲及 印度次大陆两个方向迁徙扩散的。

    属于中国的 R 类型人群基本都是在不同历史时期下才迁入的,目前在中国男性人口中约有 1.70% 的占比,分布上北方多于南方,其中在有些分布于中国腹地的 R 类型可能是来自于新疆地区。
    "Haplogroup R
    TMRCA 28990 ybp

    Branch History
    Genetic marker R is an important subtype of K2. The populations under this type are mainly concentrated in the Indo-European language group. It is speculated that it may at first have migrated and diffused from Central Asia or North Asia in two directions, toward Europe and toward the Indian subcontinent.

    The people in China who belong to the R type have basically all immigrated in different historical periods. At present, they account for about 1.70% of the male population in China. The distribution is greater in the north than in the south. Some of the R types that are distributed in the hinterland of China may be from the Xinjiang region."

    It appears that about 1.70% of the current male population of China should belong to Y-DNA haplogroup R, with about 1.12% belonging to haplogroup R1a, about 0.43% belonging to haplogroup R1b, and about 0.14% belonging to haplogroup R2.

    Here are reports from 23mofang about some other clades of human Y-DNA:
    J-M304
    共祖时间距今 31680 年

    支系历史
    遗传标记 J-M304 是 F-M89 下分化的一个重要类型,据推测,该类型大约形成于 31680 年前的中东地区,并在此长期生活繁衍。而随着新石器时代的发展,该类型下人群开始向地中海沿岸、高加索、中 亚、南亚等地区扩散。

    如今,该类型广泛分布于中东、中亚、南亚、北非和欧洲等地区,是阿拉伯人和犹太人的主要父系类型。在中国, 该类型约占全国男性人口的 0.72%,以维族、回族为主,主要集中在我国西北地区。
    "J-M304
    TMRCA 31680 ybp

    Branch History
    The genetic marker J-M304 is an important subtype of F-M89. It is speculated that this type may have formed in the Middle East about 31,680 years ago, and lived and proliferated there for a long time. With the development of the Neolithic Age, people of this type began to spread to the Mediterranean coast, Caucasus, Central Asia, South Asia and other regions.

    Today, this type is widely distributed in the Middle East, Central Asia, South Asia, North Africa and Europe, and it is the main patrilineal type for Arabs and Jews. In China, this type accounts for about 0.72% of the national male population, mainly Uighur and Hui, and mainly concentrated in the northwest region of our country."

    J-M172
    共祖时间距今 28890 年

    支系历史
    J-M172(J2)是 J-M304 下的一个重要分支,目前主要分布于中东、欧洲、中亚、南亚等地区。中国的 J 系人群主要属于该类型下游,约占全国男性人口的 0.57%,分布集中在我国西北地区。
    "J-M172
    TMRCA 28890 ybp

    Branch History
    J-M172 (J2) is an important branch under J-M304, currently distributed mainly in the Middle East, Europe, Central Asia, South Asia and other regions. The J lineage population in China mainly belongs to subclades of this type, accounting for about 0.57% of the national male population, and the distribution is concentrated in the northwest region of our country."

    E
    共祖时间距今 52540 年

    支系历史
    在走出非洲以后,人类(群体)开始向世界各地迁徙。其中,携带遗传标记 E 的人类(群体)则是在来到非洲东北部或中东地区后,一部分继续向中东及欧洲地区扩散,而另一部分又迁回到非 洲各地。经历数万年的发展,二者的下游人群之间已形成巨大差异。

    如今,该类型主要分布于非洲、中东及欧洲地区。而在中国,该类型约占全国男性人口的 0.14%,在分布上集中在以新疆为主的西北地区。
    "[Haplogroup] E
    TMRCA 52540 ybp

    Branch History
    After leaving Africa, humans (groups [of people]) began to migrate all over the world. Among them, humans (groups [of people]) carrying the genetic marker E came to Northeast Africa or the Middle East, and one subset continued to spread to the Middle East and Europe, while another subset moved back to Africa. After tens of thousands of years of development, huge differences have formed between the descendant populations of the two.

    Today, this type is mainly distributed in Africa, the Middle East and Europe. In China, this type accounts for about 0.14% of the national male population, and it is concentrated in the northwest region, mainly Xinjiang."

    G
    共祖时间距今 26210 年

    支系历史
    遗传标记 G 是 F-M89 下分化的一个重要类型,据推测,该类型大约形成于 26210 年前的中东地区东部,并在此长期生活繁衍。而随着新石器时代的发展,该类型下人群开始向欧洲扩 散。

    如今,该类型下人群广泛分布于中东、高加索及欧洲部分地区,同时在南亚、中亚、北非等地亦有少量分布。在中 国,该类型约占全国男性人口的 0.19%,在分布上集中在以新疆为主的西北地区。
    "[Haplogroup] G
    TMRCA 26210 ybp

    Branch History
    Genetic marker G is an important subtype of F-M89. It is speculated that this type may have formed in the eastern part of the Middle East about 26,210 years ago, and lived and proliferated there for a long time. With the development of the Neolithic Age, the population of this type began to spread to Europe.

    Today, people under this type are widely distributed in the Middle East, Caucasus and parts of Europe, and also have a small distribution in South Asia, Central Asia, North Africa and other places. In China, this type accounts for about 0.19% of the national male population, and it is concentrated in the northwest region, mainly Xinjiang."

    H
    共祖时间距今 44940 年

    支系历史
    遗传标记 H 是 F-M89 下分化的一个重要类型,推测该类型可能最早产生于中亚或南亚地区,随后其后裔又进入印度内陆地区,成为最早 定居印度的人群之一。

    如今,该类型下人群主要集中于印度及周边地区,同时在中亚、中东、欧洲等地亦有少量分布。在中国,该类型约 占全国男性人口的 0.06%,其人口基本都来源于下游的 H-M52 这一支系,主要集中在新疆及周边地区。
    "[Haplogroup] H
    TMRCA 44940 ybp

    Branch History
    Genetic marker H is an important subtype of F-M89. It is speculated that this type may have first arisen in Central Asia or South Asia, with its descendants subsequently entering the inland areas of India, becoming one of the earliest populations to settle in India.

    Nowadays, people under this type are mainly concentrated in India and surrounding areas, and they are also distributed in small numbers in Central Asia, the Middle East, Europe and other places. In China, this type accounts for about 0.06% of the national male population, and its population basically comes from the downstream H-M52 branch, mainly concentrated in Xinjiang and surrounding areas."

    I-M170
    共祖时间距今 28880 年

    支系历史
    遗传标记 I-M170 是 F-M89 下分化的一个重要类型,该类型是从中东地区向欧洲迁徙扩张的一支,也有部分学者认为其是欧洲最古老的居民之 一。而随着十六、七世纪西欧国家的殖民活动,亦有大量该类型人群迁徙至澳洲及美洲。

    如今,该类型主要集中于欧洲地区。而在中国,该类型约占全国男性人口的 0.07%,在南北多地均有零星分布,其中在新疆、甘肃两省的当地人口占比超过 0.5%。
    "I-M170
    TMRCA 28880 ybp

    Branch History
    The genetic marker I-M170 is an important subtype of F-M89. This type is a branch that has migrated and expanded from the Middle East to Europe, and some scholars believe that it is one of the oldest inhabitants of Europe. With the colonial activities of Western European countries in the 16th and 17th centuries, a large number of people of this type have migrated to Australia and the Americas.

    Today, this type is mainly concentrated in the European region. In China, this type accounts for about 0.07% of the national male population, and it is scattered in many places in the north and south. Among them, it accounts for more than 0.5% of the local population in Xinjiang and Gansu provinces."

    L
    共祖时间距今 14100 年

    支系历史
    遗传标记 L 是 F-M89 下分化的一个重要类型,该类型是从中东地区向印度内陆迁徙扩张的一支。目前,该类型高频分布于印度南部地区 ,并在南亚其他地区、中亚、西南亚和地中海地区均有分布。在中国,该类型约占全国男性人口的 0.12%,在分布上集中在以新疆为主的西北地区。
    "[Haplogroup] L
    TMRCA 14100 ybp

    Branch History
    Genetic marker L is an important subtype of F-M89. This type is a branch that has migrated and expanded from the Middle East to inland India. At present, this type is distributed with high frequency in southern India, and it is also distributed in other parts of South Asia, Central Asia, Southwest Asia and the Mediterranean. In China, this type accounts for about 0.12% of the national male population, and it is concentrated in the northwest region, mainly Xinjiang."

    T
    共祖时间距今 31850 年

    支系历史
    遗传标记 T 是 F-M89 下分化的一个重要类型,据推测,该类型大约形成于 31850 年前的中东地区,并在此长期生活繁衍。而随着新石器时代的发展,该类型下人群开始向周围地区扩 散。

    如今,该类型广泛分布于中东、非洲东北部及南欧部分地区。在中国,该类型约占全国男性人口的 0.06%,主要集中在我国北方地区。
    "[Haplogroup] T
    TMRCA 31850 ybp

    Branch History
    The genetic marker T is an important subtype of F-M89. It is speculated that this type may have formed in the Middle East about 31,850 years ago, and lived and proliferated there for a long time. With the development of the Neolithic Age, people of this type began to spread to the surrounding areas.

    Today, this type is widely distributed in the Middle East, northeastern Africa, and parts of southern Europe. In China, this type accounts for about 0.06% of the national male population, and it is mainly concentrated in northern China."

    Q-L275
    共祖时间距今 14010 年

    支系历史
    Q-L275 是 Q 系下的一个分支,推测该类型最早产生于中亚地区,然后向中东和南亚方向扩散,如今在欧洲的德系犹太人和西班 牙系犹太人中亦有较高分布。在中国,该类型只少量分布于新疆地区,约占全国男性人口的 0.08%。
    "Q-L275
    TMRCA 14010 ybp

    Branch History
    Q-L275 is a branch of the Q lineage. It is speculated that this type may have first appeared in Central Asia and then spread to the Middle East and South Asia. Today, it is also highly distributed among Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews in Europe. In China, this type is only distributed in a small amount in Xinjiang, accounting for about 0.08% of the national male population."

    Q-M346
    共祖时间距今 20710 年

    支系历史
    Q-M346 是 Q 系下的一个分支,目前主要集中于蒙古、西伯利亚及美洲土著当中,在中国有少量分布,约占全国男 性人口的 0.19%。根据考古发现,在古代中国边疆地区的 DNA 样本中检测到的 Q 类型多为 Q-M346(如新疆黑沟梁匈奴墓地、西伯利亚阿尔泰大墓),因此推测该类型为匈奴人的主要父系类型之一。
    "Q-M346
    TMRCA 20710 ybp

    Branch History
    Q-M346 is a branch of the Q lineage. It is currently concentrated mainly in Mongolia, Siberia and Native Americans, with a small distribution in China, accounting for about 0.19% of the national male population. According to archaeological findings, most of the Q types detected in DNA samples from ancient China's frontier areas are Q-M346 (such as the Xiongnu cemetery at Heigouliang, Xinjiang and the Altai Tomb in Siberia), so it is speculated that this type may be one of the main paternal types of the Xiongnu."

    Q-L712
    共祖时间距今 13500 年

    支系历史
    Q-L712 是 Q 系下的一个分支,如今常见于中东及欧洲地区,推测可能与匈奴人、蒙古人和突厥人西征有关。目前,该类型在中 国男性中有 0.04% 人口占比,相对集中于北方。
    "Q-L712
    TMRCA 13500 ybp

    Branch History
    Q-L712 is a branch of the Q lineage and is now common in the Middle East and Europe. It is speculated that it may be related to the westward expeditions of the Huns, Mongols and Turks. At present, this type accounts for 0.04% of the Chinese male population, and it is relatively concentrated in the north."

    A total of about 3.06% of all Chinese males (if one counts only E, G, H, I, J, R, L, and T as non-East Eurasian haplogroups) or about 3.37% of all Chinese males (if one also counts Q(xM120) as non-East Eurasian) should belong to non-East Eurasian Y-DNA haplogroups. There are also one member of haplogroup A-M13 (mainly African), six members of C1a2-V20 (mainly European), and twenty-one members of C1b1a1-K176/Z16470 (mainly South/Southwest Asian), but these clades are so rare in 23mofang's database that they have not attempted to estimate their frequency in China.

    Summary of non-East Eurasian Y-DNA haplogroups as percentages of the present-day male population of China according to official estimates from 23mofang
    *E 0.14%
    *G 0.19%
    *H 0.06% (mainly H-M52 and in Xinjiang)
    *I 0.07%
    *J-M304 0.72%
    **J1-L255 0.13%
    **J2-M172 0.57%
    *L 0.12%
    *T 0.06%
    *Q
    **Q-L275 0.08%
    **Q-L472
    ***Q-M346 0.19%
    ***Q-F1096
    ****Q-M25
    *****Q-L712 0.04%
    ****Q-F746
    *****Q-M120 2.44% (I think most people would agree with not counting the members of this clade as members of a non-East Eurasian Y-DNA haplogroup despite the fact that it may ultimately be ascribable to introgression from a non-East Eurasian patrilineal ancestor.)
    *R 1.70%
    **R1
    ***R1a-M417 1.12%
    ***R1b
    ****R1b-PH155 0.09%
    ****R1b-L754
    *****R1b-L389
    ******R1b-V1636 0.02%
    ******R1b-P297
    *******R1b-M478 0.09%
    *******R1b-M269 0.23%
    **R2
    ***R2a 0.11%
    ***R2b 0.03%

    Total non-East Eurasian Y-DNA in China ≈3.37% (≈3.06% if one excludes all members of haplogroup Q; ≈5.81% if one includes Q-M120 as well as all other subclades of haplogroup Q)
    Last edited by Ebizur; 05-29-2022 at 01:46 PM.

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  12. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by alchemist223 View Post
    Ebizur, what do you make of YFull's C-M8 samples from China? I believe they are from Liaoning and Hebei. I'm surprised to see any C-M8 in China; I thought its distribution was almost entirely limited to Japan and Korea.
    One more thing that I might mention in connection with this is that the distribution of typically Japanese haplogroups (O1b2-M176, C1a1-M8, D1a2a-M64) in China may plausibly be explained by simple diffusion from Korea in an era after the genetic structure of the present-day Korean population with its particular Y-DNA composition had been formed.

    It is difficult to gauge the significance of this in regard to C-M8 in particular because of its very low frequency among both Chinese and Koreans, but the frequency of these clades in the present-day population of China could be achieved by mixing a hypothetical Chinese (male) population prior to Korean admixture at a proportion of 98% with a hypothetical population of Korean (male) immigrants at a proportion of approximately 2%.

    The only subset of O-M176, C-M8, and D-M64 that is clearly represented among the present-day Chinese out of proportion to its representation among present-day Koreans is O1b2a1a2b-F940 (TMRCA 2630 ybp; accounts for 0.12% of the entire male population of present-day China according to 23mofang). O-F940 is the nearest extant outgroup of O1b2a1a2a-L682 (TMRCA 4060 ybp; its major subclade, O-CTS723, accounts for 0.31% of the entire male population of present-day China according to 23mofang; O-L682 accounts for approximately 18.98% of the population of South Korea according to So Yeun Kwon et al. 2015). O-F940 is currently concentrated in Hunan Province in southern China, and there is no evidence to date for any presence of this clade among modern Koreans.

    If one excludes O-F940 from consideration, there is nothing about the ratios of the various subclades of the typically Japanese haplogroups to one another nor their geographic distributions in China that would prevent one from readily ascribing their presence in China to minor (≈2%) male-mediated admixture from Korea. After looking closely at the distributions of some very young subclades of typically Chinese haplogroups, I would expect this hypothetical Korean admixture to have arrived in China after a huge admixture of typically Chinese Y-DNA into a hypothetical "paleo-Korean (≈ Japanese)" population had occurred. (In other words, there are some minor subclades of typically Chinese Y-DNA haplogroups that appear to have migrated from China into Korea and then perhaps, but not necessarily, "become Korean" before migrating back into China.)

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  14. #239
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    Estimated percentage of the total population of China that belongs to each of various clades of Y-DNA according to 23mofang's official reports:

    C-M130 (TMRCA 48040 ybp)
    *C-AM00848 (TMRCA 4010 ybp) 0.19%
    *C-M217 (TMRCA 32080 ybp)
    **C-L1373 (TMRCA 16720 ybp) 1.19% [Often found among Mongols, Manchus, Oroqens, and other northern ethnic minority populations.]
    **C-F1067 (TMRCA 31080 ybp) 7.87%
    ***C-CTS4660 (TMRCA 4070 ybp) 0.26% [Mainly concentrated in the Liangguang region of China.]
    ***C-CTS2 (TMRCA 13740 ybp)
    ****C-MF2115 (TMRCA 4170 ybp) 0.02%
    ****C-F978 (TMRCA 10340 ybp) 7.58% [Reckoned to be one of the "six super-ancestors of Neolithic China."]
    *****C-F845 (TMRCA 7890 ybp) 2.25% [Distributed rather evenly among Han, Miao, Sui, Tujia, Chaoxian i.e. Koreans, etc.]
    *****C-F3895 (TMRCA 9550 ybp) 5.33%
    ******C-CTS2657 (TMRCA 8970 ybp) 2.17%
    *******C-A14901 (TMRCA 6680 ybp)
    ********C-MF1580 (TMRCA 2690 ybp) 0.06% [Currently distributed across both Northeast China and the Korean Peninsula.]
    ********C-A14909 (TMRCA 6680 ybp)
    *********C-A14908 (TMRCA 6390 ybp) 0.18% [A branch of C-CTS2657 that has spread mainly to the south.]
    *********C-MF1553 (TMRCA 4480 ybp) 0.34%
    *******C-CTS11990 (TMRCA 7590 ybp)
    ********C-BY59164 (TMRCA 6300 ybp)
    *********C-Z31664 (TMRCA 5100 ybp) 0.07% [Mainly concentrated in the three provinces of the Northeast and in Jiangsu, Shandong, Beijing, Tianjin, and Hebei, while also having some distribution in Japan, Korea, and other places.]
    ********C-CTS8579 (TMRCA 6080 ybp) 1.55%
    *********C-CTS8629 (TMRCA 4850 ybp) 0.39% [Currently distributed mainly in the northern regions of China.]
    *********C-F7940 (TMRCA 6080 ybp)
    **********C-MF1605 (TMRCA 5610 ybp) 0.31% [Mainly concentrated in Yunnan and in various provinces and cities of the North and the East.]
    **********C-M407 (TMRCA 3920 ybp) 0.85%
    ******C-K700 (TMRCA 9250 ybp)
    *******C-CTS3385 (TMRCA 6420 ybp) 0.65% [Relatively concentrated in the north; detected at the Shengedaliang site in Shenmu County, Shaanxi Province]
    *******C-F1319 (TMRCA 8390 ybp) 2.50% [This type is widely distributed in East Asia, and is mainly concentrated in Shandong, Henan, Jiangsu, Anhui and other provinces and cities in China. Among them, DNA from a high-status burial of the Western Jin in Langya, Shandong (the owner of the tomb is presumed to be a member of the Sima family) has been tested and turned out to be C-F1319. In addition, some institution[s] speculate that the lineage of Confucius may belong to a subclade of this type.] (Ebizur: I think this should be the Western Jin tomb at Xiyanchi in what is now Linyi, Shandong that is suspected to contain the remains of a member of the royal Sima clan. At the time, this area should have been under the jurisdiction of Langya Commandery. According to genealogical records, the Sima family of the Jin Dynasty is descended from the King of Yin 殷王, Sima Ang, of the Qin-Han interregnum [around the end of the 3rd century BCE], and Confucius (c. 551 – c. 479 BCE) is descended from the royal family of the Shang aka Yin 殷 Dynasty via the nobility of the Song state after Shang/Yin had submitted to Zhou ca. 1046 BCE.)

    D-CTS11577 (TMRCA 46200 ybp)
    *D-Z3660 (TMRCA 45070 ybp)
    **D-M64.1 (TMRCA 23510 ybp) 0.02% [Mainly in the Northeast.]
    *D-F6251 (TMRCA 46200 ybp)
    **D-M533 (TMRCA 11810 ybp) 0.36% [Mainly in Tibet, Gansu, Shanxi, Shaanxi, and other northern areas.]
    ***D-P47 (TMRCA 7080 ybp) 0.33% [Mainly in Tibet, Qinghai, Shaanxi, Gansu, Sichuan, Yunnan, etc.]
    ****D-F17034 (TMRCA 6550 ybp)
    *****D-Y137761 (TMRCA 4970 ybp)
    ******D-Z42599 (TMRCA 3640 ybp) 0.07% [Mainly in Tibet, Yunnan, etc. among Tibetan, Pumi, and Han populations.]
    ****D-Y14736 (TMRCA 2750 ybp) 0.27% [Mainly in Tibet, Shaanxi, Gansu, Qinghai, etc.]
    **D-F849 (TMRCA 33480 ybp) 2.01%
    ***D-F1070 (TMRCA 23830 ybp) 0.56% [Distributed rather greatly in Guangdong, Hunan, Hubei, and other southern provinces.]
    ***D-Z27269 (TMRCA 17340 ybp) 1.45%
    ****D-MF216654 (TMRCA 2720 ybp)
    ****D-Z27278 (TMRCA 17340 ybp)
    *****D-Z31591 (TMRCA 5760 ybp) 0.51% [This genetic marker has been detected in the DNA of ancient human bones from the Lajia site in Minhe County, Qinghai Province.]
    *****D-F729 (TMRCA 12330 ybp) 0.90% [Concentrated in Beijing, Tianjin, Hebei, Henan, Sichuan, Ningxia, and other places. In addition, there are also people carrying this genetic marker in other Asian countries (Russia, Japan, Uzbekistan, etc.).]

    F-Y27277 (TMRCA 44150 ybp) 0.15% [Mainly in Yunnan, Guangxi, Guangdong, etc. The F-M427 subclade [TMRCA 11100 ybp] is mainly found among minority ethnic groups, such as Yi, Bai, and Lahu, in Yunnan and its vicinity. The F-MF59954 subclade [TMRCA 2190 ybp] is mainly found among Han and Zhuang in Guangdong and Guangxi.]

    N-M231 (TMRCA 21300 ybp) 6.46%
    *N-B482 (TMRCA 9010 ybp) 0.01% [Hebei, Heilongjiang, Anhui, etc.]
    *N-Z4762 (TMRCA 21300 ybp)
    **N-F963 (TMRCA 18640 ybp)
    ***N-F2930 (TMRCA 15840 ybp) 3.61% [Mainly distributed in Shandong, Jiangsu, Zhejiang, Anhui, etc.]
    ****N-CTS582 (TMRCA 12460 ybp) 1.25% [Mainly Han Chinese, with a distribution concentrated in Shaanxi, Shandong, Anhui, Jiangsu, Zhejiang, etc.]
    *****N-CTS962 (TMRCA 6540 ybp) 0.45% [Mainly distributed in Jiangsu, Zhejiang, Fujian, Shandong, Shanghai, etc.]
    *****N-Y6374 (TMRCA 12460 ybp)
    ******N-Z19712 (TMRCA 12460 ybp)
    *******N-MF57379 (TMRCA 4100 ybp) 0.05% [Mainly distributed in Anhui, Shandong, Shaanxi, Gansu, etc.]
    *******N-CTS39 (TMRCA 11180 ybp) 0.19% [Distributed evenly across Shanxi, Gansu, Anhui, Jiangsu, etc.]
    ******N-L727 (TMRCA 12460 ybp) 0.50% [Mainly distributed in Anhui, Zhejiang, Shandong, Jiangsu, Shanxi, Henan, etc.]
    ****N-M1819 (TMRCA 6690 ybp) 2.36% [Found in a specimen from the Pingliangtai site in Henan attributed to the Longshan culture. Distributed widely in both the south and the north, mainly being Han Chinese, but also having some distribution among Mongols and Manchus.]
    *****N-MF20669 (TMRCA 5010 ybp)
    *****N-MF21116 (TMRCA 6190 ybp)
    ******N-MF21525 (TMRCA 6190 ybp) 0.07% [Found in the specimen from the Pingliangtai site. Its distribution is relatively great in Jiangsu, Anhui, Shandong, Sichuan, etc.]
    *****N-F1020 (TMRCA 6210 ybp) 2.24% [Distributed widely across the north and the south, with a relatively great distribution in Shandong, Gansu, Shaanxi, Henan, Sichuan, Jiangsu, etc.]
    ***N-F1206 (TMRCA 16720 ybp) 2.83%
    ****N-Y3071 (TMRCA 14390 ybp) 1.21% [Rather greatly distributed in Zhejiang, Shanghai, Shandong, Hebei, etc.]
    *****N-MF59353 (TMRCA 2770 ybp) 0.03% [Mainly distributed in Shaanxi, Heilongjiang, etc. Besides Han Chinese, there is also a group among the Daurs who carry this genetic marker.]
    *****N-Y3059 (TMRCA 12600 ybp) 1.18%
    ******N-L666 (TMRCA 9230 ybp) 1.15%
    *******N-P43 (TMRCA 4510 ybp) 0.06% [Mainly distributed in the north.]
    *******N-F1101 (TMRCA 8210 ybp) 1.09% [Distribution is concentrated in Shanxi, Henan, Shandong, etc., mainly among Han Chinese.]
    ****N-F2584 (TMRCA 16700 ybp)
    *****N-MF14176 (TMRCA 13810 ybp) 0.53% [Mainly distributed in Shandong, Anhui, Jiangsu, Sichuan, etc.]
    ******N-MF35838 (TMRCA 4700 ybp) 0.01% [Distributed in Henan, Anhui, Jiangsu, etc.]
    ******N-Y149575 (TMRCA 6420 ybp) 0.44%
    *****N-M46 (TMRCA 12520 ybp) 1.10%
    ******N-F4063 (TMRCA 7070 ybp) 0.75% [Distribution is concentrated in Jiangsu, Shandong, Henan, etc.]
    *******N-Y125666 (TMRCA 6630 ybp) 0.75%
    ********N-MF16681 (TMRCA 5550 ybp) 0.67% [Distribution is relatively great in Jiangsu, Anhui, Shandong, Henan, etc.]
    *********N-MF15765 (TMRCA 4460 ybp) 0.57% [Mainly distributed in Jiangsu, Zhejiang, Anhui, Henan, Shandong, etc.]
    ******N-CTS6128 (TMRCA 11180 ybp) 0.34%
    *******N-Y24317 (TMRCA 10800 ybp)
    *******N-L392 (TMRCA 7880 ybp) 0.32%
    ********N-Y9022 (TMRCA 4000 ybp)
    ********N-M2126 (TMRCA 6750 ybp) 0.32%
    *********N-M2019 (TMRCA 3620 ybp)
    **********N-M2058 (TMRCA 3470 ybp) 0.21% [Distribution is concentrated in Hebei, Shaanxi, Gansu, and other northern provinces.]
    ***********N-MF36044 (TMRCA 2840 ybp)
    ***********N-M2016 (TMRCA 2840 ybp)
    ***********N-A9408 (TMRCA 3470 ybp)
    *********N-L1026 (TMRCA 5010 ybp) 0.10% [Mainly distributed in the north.]
    **********N-Z1936 (TMRCA 4870 ybp)
    **********N-Y6058 (TMRCA 4850 ybp)
    ***********N-Y16323 (TMRCA 4850 ybp)
    ************N-B202 (TMRCA 2660 ybp)
    ************N-F4205 (TMRCA 3050 ybp) 0.08% [Mainly distributed in Shandong, Liaoning, etc.]
    Last edited by Ebizur; 06-04-2022 at 09:00 AM.

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  16. #240
    It seems, Koreans as a peninsular people look to be actually on the edge/cusp of being 'peripheral,' which the Japanese could be considered being described as. I think one should look more inner towards the interior for more clues to connect Northern Chinese with other northern East Asians, than directly find comparisons with Koreans. And also take into account how much history and great events and famous people existed towards the Hebei, Shanxi and northern Shandong side of the Central Plains, just because they needed to deal with northern neighbors. And looking at migrations, the flow and movements of people from these areas toward inland due to points of pressure

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