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Thread: ADN europeo en las Americas

  1. #1
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    Cuba

    ADN europeo en las Americas

    Aqui teneis un mapa que hice sobre la mezcla europea en America Latina. Las fuentes estan en la imagen.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to maeloc For This Useful Post:

     alejandromb92 (06-01-2021),  Pedro Ruben (06-01-2021)

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    Estoy muy de acuerdo, literal es el mapa mas perfecto que puede haber de la Ibero-America europea. Te has esmerado!

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     maeloc (06-01-2021)

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    I strongly doubt that there are regions of Cuba in which the general population is 80% or 90% European on average, that would basically make the majority of the population phenotypically European and that's far from reality. Southern Brazil has much more ''phenotypical whites'' than Cuba and it's around 78% European on average. I think you are using Cuban-Americans as averages for Cuba.

    Brazilian map is incorrect too, the reddiest region is actually among the least European influenced regions of Southern Brazil, the regions up north received much more influences from recent immigration.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caius Agrippa View Post
    I strongly doubt that there are regions of Cuba in which the general population is 80% or 90% European on average, that would basically make the majority of the population phenotypically European and that's far from reality. Southern Brazil has much more ''phenotypical whites'' than Cuba and it's around 78% European on average. I think you are using Cuban-Americans as averages for Cuba.
    This is not true. The reason you think this is because most Cubans that go to South-America are mixed-race or black (which is due to the segregation in Cuba that even still lingers on today) because they have no old family members that went to Spain (recent Spanish DNA) or the United States (old nobility). Here is the source to the study that conducted the DNA test. It has a lot to do with economic class.
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-29851-3

    Quote Originally Posted by Caius Agrippa View Post
    Brazilian map is incorrect too, the reddiest region is actually among the least European influenced regions of Southern Brazil, the regions up north received much more influences from recent immigration.
    I have multiple studies that say the opposite.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4177621/
    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0075145
    https://www.scielo.br/j/gmb/a/fk6kLT...dcZBC/?lang=en
    https://www.pnas.org/content/112/28/8696



    The only real thing you can say about this map is that the Yucatan peninsula is wrong, I had a lot of conflicting data from the Mexican studies with some giving the region way more European ADN than what is pictured too. Other than that, everything is completely sourced.
    Last edited by maeloc; 06-01-2021 at 09:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maeloc View Post
    This is not true. The reason you think this is because most Cubans that go to South-America are mixed-race or black (which is due to the segregation in Cuba that even still lingers on today) because they have no old family members that went to Spain (recent Spanish DNA) or the United States (old nobility). Here is the source to the study that conducted the DNA test. It has a lot to do with economic class.
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-29851-3



    I have multiple studies that say the opposite.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4177621/
    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0075145
    https://www.scielo.br/j/gmb/a/fk6kLT...dcZBC/?lang=en
    https://www.pnas.org/content/112/28/8696



    The only real thing you can say about this map is that the Yucatan peninsula is wrong, I had a lot of conflicting data from the Mexican studies with some giving the region way more European ADN than what is pictured too. Other than that, everything is completely sourced.
    None of the studies you actually posted corroborates your map. I mean, not a single one of those studies said, for example, that the southern part of Rio Grande do Sul is the most European region of Brazil, Northern Rio Grande do Sul and Santa Catarina state are by far much more European. You just guessed it based on nothing, everyone that has any clue on Brazilian demography knows it is blatantly false.

    But after seeing what you said in that Portuguese G25 thread, I know very well your intentions.
    Last edited by Caius Agrippa; 06-01-2021 at 09:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caius Agrippa View Post
    None of the studies you actually posted corroborates your map.
    Okay I will attempt to be as nice as possible but did you actually read any of them? I have made this image macro so you can understand.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Quote Originally Posted by maeloc View Post
    Okay I will attempt to be as nice as possible but did you actually read any of them? I have made this image macro so you can understand.
    Man, I have seen all of those studies plenty of times, just look it up that I edited my reply. There are much more studies giving a more balanced picture. You just cherrypicked some studies that do not even say exactly what you claimed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caius Agrippa View Post
    Man, I have seen all of those studies plenty of times, just look it up that I edited my reply. There are much more studies giving a more balanced picture. You just cherrypicked some studies that do not even say exactly what you claimed.
    I cherrypicked? I literally have 5 Brazilian studies there. I can't even find more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caius Agrippa View Post
    I mean, not a single one of those studies said, for example, that the southern part of Rio Grande do Sul is the most European region of Brazil, Northern Rio Grande do Sul and Santa Catarina state are by far much more European. You just guessed it based on nothing, everyone that has any clue on Brazilian demography knows it is blatantly false.
    Again, you refused to read. Look at the Scielo study's image. The ncbi study also shows the same thing. Are you sure you even know how to read these? Up until a little bit ago you believed that northern Brazil had a higher European ADN than southern Brazil hahaha

    Quote Originally Posted by Caius Agrippa View Post
    But after seeing what you said in that Portuguese G25 thread, I know very well your intentions.
    What is this even supposed to mean? I said that when making Iron Age models of Iberians (or anybody for that matter) you should never use Imperial Roman samples because they are not ancestral to Iberians? What is wrong with that exactly? What "agenda" do you think I am trying to spin here?

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    Quote Originally Posted by maeloc View Post
    Up until a little bit ago you believed that northern Brazil had a higher European ADN than southern Brazil hahaha
    Where did I said that? You should improve your reading skills, I was talking specifically about admixture inside Southern Brazil. I did not even bring Northern Brazil in any discussion. I said regions up north in Southern Brazil are more European than regions down south near Uruguay border as your map shows.

    Besides, there cannot be many regions with overwhelming majority (80%+) of population over 80-90% European in Cuba if the country as a whole is around ~70% (that's the claim of that Nature study).

    Quote Originally Posted by maeloc View Post
    What is this even supposed to mean? I said that when making Iron Age models of Iberians (or anybody for that matter) you should never use Imperial Roman samples because they are not ancestral to Iberians? What is wrong with that exactly? What "agenda" do you think I am trying to spin here?
    You are wrong in this as well, Roman settlers in Iberia were similar to Imperial Romans, not Iron Age Latins. Unless you want to believe that Iberians have actual Eastern Mediterranean/Levantine admixture. But this is off-topic and I was just pointing to a common pattern of thought commonly found in some DNA forums.
    Last edited by Caius Agrippa; 06-01-2021 at 09:48 PM.

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