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Thread: Do Pathans in East Pakistan and North India/Gujarat score like regular Indians?

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    Do Pathans in East Pakistan and North India/Gujarat score like regular Indians?

    I tried looking for Indian/Gujarat or Lahore/Karachi Pathan samples but I can't find them. Would they score mostly like Indians with more elevated Pashtun like ancestry or would they score mostly like Pashtuns from Pashtunistan/Peshawar?

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    Define “regular” Indian and what part of Pashtunistan you’re referring to?

    I’ve seen some UP Pathan results and some score like Pashtun + local pop. Others, seem to have "adapted" Pathan identity so score the same as the local pop. However, I’ve also seen a Niazi from Punjab who scored within range of unadmixed Northern Pakhtuns (but more South Asian spectrum/end of it).

    My spreadsheet has a decent collection of Pashtun/Pakhtun kits from across the Pashtun region. It also has academic samples from Pakistan’s tribal areas + Northern KPK region (Swat/Dir). The majority of academic samples are on G25 as well.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...xnjb4/htmlview
    Last edited by Sapporo; 06-04-2021 at 02:55 PM.
    pegasus modeling:
    sample": "Punjabi_Jat:Sapporo_AGUser",
    "fit": 1.1506,
    "IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3": 43.33,
    "TKM_Gonur1_BA": 31.67,
    "RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 25,
    "closestDistances": [

    avatar credit goes out to aaronbee2010

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapporo View Post
    Define “regular” Indian and what part of Pashtunistan you’re referring to?

    I’ve seen some UP Pathan results and some score like Pashtun + local pop. Others, are copies of the local pop. However, I’ve also seen a Niazi from Punjab who scored within range of unadmixed Northern Pakhtuns (but more South Asian shifted end of it).
    Sorry I should have been more clear. By regular Indian I meant the majority/local population in which the Pathan lives in. For example, would an Uttar Pradeshi Pathan score like a regular Uttar Pradesh Indian with no foreign ancestry. Would Irfan Pathan and his family score like Gujaratis and genetically resemble the local population? Based on your answer it seems like it varies.

    By Pashtunistan I meant the region straddling Southern Afghanstan and Northern Pakistan (where most Pathans live or originate from).

    I read an article which said Pathans in India have lots of ANI, but no results were provided.

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2013...ce-melting-pot

    It says the ANI ranged from 17 percent in Paniyas to a high of 71 percent in Pathans. However the study is old.

    I guess based on the samples you've seen, UP Pathans on average have some Pashtun type ancestry. Some have a lot others have none/not much like you said.

    EDIT: thanks for the spreadsheet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapporo View Post
    Define “regular” Indian and what part of Pashtunistan you’re referring to?

    I’ve seen some UP Pathan results and some score like Pashtun + local pop. Others, are copies of the local pop. However, I’ve also seen a Niazi from Punjab who scored within range of unadmixed Northern Pakhtuns (but more South Asian spectrum/end of it).

    My spreadsheet has a decent collection of Pashtun/Pakhtun kits from across the Pashtun region. It also has academic samples from Pakistan’s tribal areas + Northern KPK region (Swat/Dir). The majority of academic samples are on G25 as well.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...xnjb4/htmlview
    My cousin is Afridi Pathan on his mother's side, she belongs to the Afridi Pathans of Malihabad which is famous for its mangoes in Uttar Pradesh.

    I have never tested his DNA though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by deuterium_1 View Post
    My cousin is Afridi Pathan on his mother's side, she belongs to the Afridi Pathans of Malihabad which is famous for its mangoes in Uttar Pradesh.

    I have never tested his DNA though.
    Forum member Mehrdad is an Afridi Pakhtoon on his paternal side.
    He happens to be R-L657 (Y7).

    As far as Malihabad Pathans, FWIW:
    https://cafedissensus.com/2016/01/07...sh-connection/
    "The team visited Malihabad and collected DNA samples from 50 paternally unrelated Afridi males"
    https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/s...216-2006-11-06
    https://yhrd.org/YP000734-Uttar+Prad...ridi+Pathan%5D 68% Y-G

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azbuzz View Post
    Sorry I should have been more clear. By regular Indian I meant the majority/local population in which the Pathan lives in. For example, would an Uttar Pradeshi Pathan score like a regular Uttar Pradesh Indian with no foreign ancestry. Would Irfan Pathan and his family score like Gujaratis and genetically resemble the local population? Based on your answer it seems like it varies.

    By Pashtunistan I meant the region straddling Southern Afghanstan and Northern Pakistan (where most Pathans live or originate from).

    I read an article which said Pathans in India have lots of ANI, but no results were provided.

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2013...ce-melting-pot

    It says the ANI ranged from 17 percent in Paniyas to a high of 71 percent in Pathans. However the study is old.

    I guess based on the samples you've seen, UP Pathans on average have some Pashtun type ancestry. Some have a lot others have none/not much like you said.

    EDIT: thanks for the spreadsheet.
    Thanks for clarifying. It honestly just depends on the individual. You will find some Indian "Pathans" have legitimate Pashtun/Pakhtun ancestry. Especially, some of those around West UP/Rohilla Pathans. Some of those settled in Punjab are completely unadmixed (mostly on the Pakistani side but I believe some exist on the Indian side of Punjab as well). The Kashmir Valley is supposed to have some unadmixed Pakhtuns as well.

    As for Pashtunistan, the reason I asked which part is that Northern Pakhtuns (N2KL provinces/native rural Kabul Pakhtuns, Northern FATA/KPK) are a little different than Southern/Central Pashtuns (Kandahar, Quetta, Ghazni, Southern FATA/KPK, etc.) autosomally. They form a cline in terms of IVCp and BMAC ancestry. Their steppe is similar.
    Last edited by Sapporo; 06-05-2021 at 08:26 AM.
    pegasus modeling:
    sample": "Punjabi_Jat:Sapporo_AGUser",
    "fit": 1.1506,
    "IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3": 43.33,
    "TKM_Gonur1_BA": 31.67,
    "RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 25,
    "closestDistances": [

    avatar credit goes out to aaronbee2010

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    Quote Originally Posted by deuterium_1 View Post
    My cousin is Afridi Pathan on his mother's side, she belongs to the Afridi Pathans of Malihabad which is famous for its mangoes in Uttar Pradesh.

    I have never tested his DNA though.
    Get him tested.

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    Quote Originally Posted by laltota View Post
    Get him tested.
    I might try when I next go to India.

    His father is R-M560

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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    Forum member Mehrdad is an Afridi Pakhtoon on his paternal side.
    He happens to be R-L657 (Y7).

    As far as Malihabad Pathans, FWIW:
    https://cafedissensus.com/2016/01/07...sh-connection/
    "The team visited Malihabad and collected DNA samples from 50 paternally unrelated Afridi males"
    https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/s...216-2006-11-06
    https://yhrd.org/YP000734-Uttar+Prad...ridi+Pathan%5D 68% Y-G
    My cousin descended from an Orakzai Pashtun also has R-L657

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    HRP0384 from HarappaWorld is an UP Pathan:

    Harappaworld participant individual results:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1l87nGSIYTP
    -h7m-VKjB-BZcuEoWdz765nU4f_krOdd4/htmlview#

    Harappaworld participant ethnicity:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...t2G_Q/htmlview

    Oracle for HRP0384:
     
    Code:
    [1,] "kashmiri_harappa_2" "6.76"
    [2,] "gujarati-muslim_harappa_3" "7.7145"
    [3,] "kashmiri-pandit_reich_5" "8.3497"
    [4,] "punjabi_harappa_10" "9.2473"
    [5,] "punjabi-jatt_harappa_8" "9.6979"
    [6,] "punjabi-brahmin_harappa_2" "9.885"
    [7,] "haryana-jatt_harappa_5" "9.8988"
    [8,] "singapore-indian-c_sgvp_10" "10.2718"
    [9,] "nepalese-a_xing_12" "11.0007"
    [10,] "kashmiri-pahari_harappa_2" "11.0136"
    [11,] "up_harappa_5" "11.11"
    [12,] "pathan_hgdp_23" "11.1352"
    [13,] "punjabi-ramgarhia_harappa_2" "11.3501"
    [14,] "pashtun_harappa_3" "11.6228"
    [15,] "burusho_hgdp_25" "12.255"
    [16,] "punjabi-arain_xing_25" "12.2877"
    [17,] "up-brahmin_harappa_3" "12.942"
    [18,] "bihari-muslim_harappa_4" "13.6208"
    [19,] "bhatia_harappa_2" "13.8549"
    [20,] "kalash_hgdp_23" "13.9592"
    And
    [1,] "12.2% chuvash_behar_17 + 87.8% gujarati-muslim_harappa_3"
    [2,] "66.9% pashtun_harappa_3 + 33.1% sri-lankan_harappa_2"
    [3,] "89% gujarati-muslim_harappa_3 + 11% mordovian_yunusbayev_15"
    [4,] "89.7% gujarati-muslim_harappa_3 + 10.3% russian_behar_2"
    [5,] "89.6% gujarati-muslim_harappa_3 + 10.4% russian_hgdp_25"
    [6,] "44% bengali-brahmin_harappa_6 + 56% pashtun_harappa_3"
    [7,] "33.4% caribbean-indian_harappa_3 + 66.6% pashtun_harappa_3"
    [8,] "89.1% gujarati-muslim_harappa_3 + 10.9% ukranian_yunusbayev_20"
    [9,] "10.1% belorussian_behar_9 + 89.9% gujarati-muslim_harappa_3"
    [10,] "35.5% bengali_harappa_8 + 64.5% pashtun_harappa_3"
    [11,] "88.6% gujarati-muslim_harappa_3 + 11.4% slovenian_xing_25"
    [12,] "88.5% gujarati-muslim_harappa_3 + 11.5% hungarian_behar_19"
    [13,] "34.3% bihari_harappa_2 + 65.7% pashtun_harappa_3"
    [14,] "90.7% gujarati-muslim_harappa_3 + 9.3% lithuanian_behar_10"
    [15,] "30.7% turkmen_yunusbayev_11 + 69.3% up-brahmin_harappa_3"
    [16,] "45.7% bihari-muslim_harappa_4 + 54.3% pashtun_harappa_3"
    [17,] "21.7% stalskoe_xing_5 + 78.3% up_harappa_5"
    [18,] "29.9% kanjar_metspalu_7 + 70.1% pashtun_harappa_3"
    [19,] "72.6% pashtun_harappa_3 + 27.4% up-scheduled-caste_metspalu_5"
    [20,] "74.4% punjabi_harappa_10 + 25.6% romanian-b_behar_2"
    [21,] "31% dharkar_metspalu_11 + 69% pashtun_harappa_3"
    [22,] "8.3% finnish_1000genomes_100 + 91.7% gujarati-muslim_harappa_3"
    [23,] "76.3% pashtun_harappa_3 + 23.7% satnami_reich_4"
    [24,] "23.6% turkish_harappa_4 + 76.4% up-brahmin_harappa_3"
    [25,] "68.8% pashtun_harappa_3 + 31.2% up-muslim_metspalu_5"
    [26,] "89.4% gujarati-muslim_harappa_3 + 10.6% n-european_xing_25"
    [27,] "66.7% pashtun_harappa_3 + 33.3% srivastava_reich_2"
    [28,] "65.8% brahmin-uttar-pradesh_metspalu_8 + 34.2% turkmen_yunusbayev_11"
    [29,] "72.9% pashtun_harappa_3 + 27.1% tharu_reich_7"
    [30,] "59.7% pashtun_harappa_3 + 40.3% vaish_reich_4


    Single distance is misleading. They have artificial similarity to some NW South Asians/admixed Gujarati Muslims. They are likely around 55-65% Pakhtun/Pashtun and the rest a local UP pop.

    Also, I was mistaken about the Niazi Pakhtun being from Punjab. They are from KPK (likely near Punjab border). Their results are on the spreadsheet I linked above in my earlier post. Imran Khan may score similar to them or a bit different depending on the type of Pashtun ancestry on his maternal side (if it’s from Waziristan, he will be less South Asian shifted). This is assuming his Niazi Pakhtun father is similar to the Niazi sample we have.
    Last edited by Sapporo; 06-05-2021 at 09:01 AM.
    pegasus modeling:
    sample": "Punjabi_Jat:Sapporo_AGUser",
    "fit": 1.1506,
    "IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3": 43.33,
    "TKM_Gonur1_BA": 31.67,
    "RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 25,
    "closestDistances": [

    avatar credit goes out to aaronbee2010

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