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Thread: Prehistory of the Carpathian Basin from the perspective of archeogenetics

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    Prehistory of the Carpathian Basin from the perspective of archeogenetics

    I just watched the video of the keynote lecture by Anna Szécsényi-Nagy held on 26 August 2020 during 26th EAA Annual Meeting, titled "Prehistory of the Carpathian Basin from the perspective of archeogenetics". I think her presentation has a lot to offer and many implications. Particularly interesting is the more gradual and diverse mixture of the incoming steppe people, especially compared to the Iberian situation. Also interesting to me was, that E-V13 was not big in the Carpathian basin up to the Bronze Age, the association of specific haplogroups of R1a/R1b with specific cultures and the generally more diverse and, in my opinion, source like pattern of the Pannonian region compared to many others, like the screenshot about the yDNA distribution is clearly showing:
    Carpathian_Basin.jpg

    Also noticable how the I2a1 could keep a strong minoriy position throughout Copper and Bronze Age, whereas G2a could not. To me this implies a massive replacement and I2a1 lineages being both replaced and newly incoming at the same time.

    The full video on Youtube:


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTXiFIV0amY

    There are many other, highly interesting facts and inspirations the talk provides. If there is already a thread about it, please just fuse my post into it

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    So, it looks like Cetina Culture could be a good candidate for E-V13 after all, or somewhere more west than Carpathians. Who knows.

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    Do I see some J2a in those bar graphs or is it CT?

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    Seems like the vid was made private?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bygdedweller View Post
    Seems like the vid was made private?
    Yes. Probably it wasn't even supposed to be public

    Concerning Cetina, I would said if it would have spread E-V13 big time, Pannonia should have been more affected, but I might be wrong about that.
    Last edited by Riverman; 10-07-2020 at 08:11 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    Yes. Probably it wasn't even supposed to be public

    Concerning Cetina, I would said if it would have spread E-V13 big time, Pannonia should have been more affected, but I might be wrong about that.
    So, E-V13 is looking to be more South-Central Balkans then?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    So, E-V13 is looking to be more South-Central Balkans then?
    Actually there are still a lot of options, because the sampling is far from being complete time and space-wise. But South Central Balkans or Northern Carpathians would be my best bet right now, but others might know better alternatives and its not like Cetina is out of the game as long as we don't have samples from there. Yet like I said, these findings making it, to me, rather less likely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    Actually there are still a lot of options, because the sampling is far from being complete time and space-wise. But South Central Balkans or Northern Carpathians would be my best bet right now, but others might know better alternatives and its not like Cetina is out of the game as long as we don't have samples from there. Yet like I said, these findings making it, to me, rather less likely.
    It's becoming even more mysterious to be honest. Especially considering that Bulgarian EBA has no E-V13.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    It's becoming even more mysterious to be honest. Especially considering that Bulgarian EBA has no E-V13.
    On the one hand yes, on the other the TMRCA's of many of the V13 subclades appear to be LBA-IA. I don't think that's a coincidence and its clearly related, in my opinion, to metal work and the spread of new ideologies and technologies. First with Urnfield probably, second with the Iron Age transition itself. What seems to be quite likely is that Thracians were heavily E-V13 in the Iron Age, so probably a good question to ask is, how could their region become V13 heavy, which movements of people and cultural shifts did take place in the meantime.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    On the one hand yes, on the other the TMRCA's of many of the V13 subclades appear to be LBA-IA. I don't think that's a coincidence and its clearly related, in my opinion, to metal work and the spread of new ideologies and technologies. First with Urnfield probably, second with the Iron Age transition itself. What seems to be quite likely is that Thracians were heavily E-V13 in the Iron Age, so probably a good question to ask is, how could their region become V13 heavy, which movements of people and cultural shifts did take place in the meantime.
    From all articles that i have read, archeologists all agree that during LBA Illyrians/Thracians/Dacians/Greeks were influenced by Urnfield-like culture bringing with them cremation and Naue II swords. In case of Greece they speculate initially they were hired by Myceneans as mercenary warriors and praised for their metal-workings.

    What they are not sure is whether these guys came from Italy or North-Western Balkans/Central Europe.

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