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Thread: G25 Jewish Results (Greek Decents?)

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    G25 Jewish Results (Greek Decents?)

    Half Morocco Half Iraqi Jewish (Full Jewish)
    Dna breakedown without Jewish Disapora.
    Target: Tanchik_scaled
    Distance: 1.6983% / 0.01698314 | ADC: 0.25x RC
    41.6 Greek_Crete
    35.2 Samaritan
    17.6 Assyrian
    5.6 Moroccan_North


    Is it possible that Morocco Jews are Greek Cretan decents ?
    From 3 groups Spaniards, Italians, and Greeks. Thats what pops up. Closest to the 0.

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    What's the entire reference set in the model? All Western Jews will score an East Med reference, be it Crete etc.
    הִנְנִי֩ מֵבִ֨יא אוֹתָ֜ם מֵאֶ֣רֶץ צָפ֗וֹן

    Jeremiah 31

    Other potential and/or likely recent lineages: R-A11720, J-FGC21085, E-FGC56023

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    Quote Originally Posted by StillWater View Post
    What's the entire reference set in the model? All Western Jews will score an East Med reference, be it Crete etc.
    I used for this model. Spain, Italy, Greece. Morocco, Assyrians, and Samaritans. My maximum on G25 to Zero is 1.38 with Jewish Disapora. Here it shows as 1.6 and always choose Greece. So my question is Moroccan Jews are decents of Greeks or Italians ? Every dna company gives Italian to Jews while G25 choose always Greek.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanchik View Post
    I used for this model. Spain, Italy, Greece. Morocco, Assyrians, and Samaritans. My maximum on G25 to Zero is 1.38 with Jewish Disapora. Here it shows as 1.6 and always choose Greece.
    Why don't you share your results if you were to include every population average as a source? Preferably show one result including and excluding Jewish popns. I normally find some level of truth and insight in this method.

    So my question is Moroccan Jews are decents of Greeks or Italians ? Every dna company gives Italian to Jews while G25 choose always Greek.
    IMO surely pretty much every Moroccan Jew will derive Greek ancestry the most truly out of the 2. We know this since even if the bulk of Western Jews Mediterranean origins is found to be derived in Italy, it still is genetically East-Mediterranean predominantly as opposed to IA Italic. Therefore imported to Italy during the Iron Age but more predominantly the Imperial Roman period. IMO there may be plenty of Moroccan Jews with actually more genuine Iberian DNA than Italian DNA. Several back and forth migrations for Jews between Morocco and Iberia and less of an Italki presence in Morocco compared with Algeria.

    Depending the Western Jewish group, G25 can prefer either Southern Italian or Greek Islander. For Tunisian and Libyan Jews both Greek Dodocanese and Greek Kos are pretty popular. For all others, including Romaniotes, Italian Jews, Sephardim, Moroccan Jews, Algerian Jews and Ashkenazim, Southern Italians from Campania, Sicily and Calabria are popular choices. May well reflect what we can assume about Tunisian and Libyan Jews preserving possibly a more archaic Aegean origin compared with other Western Jews, while sharing also a similar one. I think most Western Jewish groups will have a small amount of actual Italic descent.

    DNA companies like 23andme then again can give 30% + Italian for Libyan Jews and 50% + for Dodocanese Greeks, so I wouldn't take it seriously at all. Even Turkish Karaites seem to be able to potentially get >10% Italian.
    Last edited by Seabass; 06-07-2021 at 03:51 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seabass View Post
    Why don't you share your results if you were to include every population average as a source? Preferably show one result including and excluding Jewish popns. I normally find some level of truth and insight in this method.



    IMO surely pretty much every Moroccan Jew will derive Greek ancestry the most truly out of the 2. We know this since even if the bulk of Western Jews Mediterranean origins is found to be derived in Italy, it still is genetically East-Mediterranean predominantly as opposed to IA Italic. Therefore imported to Italy during the Iron Age but more predominantly the Imperial Roman period. IMO there may be plenty of Moroccan Jews with actually more genuine Iberian DNA than Italian DNA. Several back and forth migrations for Jews between Morocco and Iberia and less of an Italki presence in Morocco compared with Algeria.

    Depending the Western Jewish group, G25 can prefer either Southern Italian or Greek Islander. For Tunisian and Libyan Jews both Greek Dodocanese and Greek Kos are pretty popular. For all others, including Romaniotes, Italian Jews, Sephardim, Moroccan Jews, Algerian Jews and Ashkenazim, Southern Italians from Campania, Sicily and Calabria are popular choices. May well reflect what we can assume about Tunisian and Libyan Jews preserving possibly a more archaic Aegean origin compared with other Western Jews, while sharing also a similar one. I think most Western Jewish groups will have a small amount of actual Italic descent.

    DNA companies like 23andme then again can give 30% + Italian for Libyan Jews and 50% + for Dodocanese Greeks, so I wouldn't take it seriously at all. Even Turkish Karaites seem to be able to potentially get >10% Italian.
    I used G25 modern individual calculator. And took evey single person on the calculator from which countries that I mentioned.

    On G25 I can be half Italian Jewish and half Iraqi Jewish. But for Morocco Jew I cant score more than 18% because my North African is lower. My baltic is high for even full Morocco Jewish. And my North Atlantid is average for half Separdic/Italian Jew.

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    K_scaled,0.08992,0.148267,-0.036204,-0.071383,-0.005539,-0.024821,0.001645,0.001154,0.001636,0.003645,0.007 632,-0.003897,0.011298,0.002477,-0.003257,-0.005701,-0.018123,0.006588,-0.001508,-0.01013,-0.000499,-0.009645,0.003204,-0.005904,0.007903

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanchik View Post
    On G25 I can be half Italian Jewish and half Iraqi Jewish. But for Morocco Jew I cant score more than 18% because my North African is lower.
    Dude you totally can! I've doubled the sample size of a few Jewish groups, but they just maybe aren't in the public G25 yet. The Moroccan Jewish average is based off 4 in G25. My copy is based off 8 samples.

    Look at that . . . That's pretty accurate.

    Target: K_scaled
    Distance: 2.7502% / 0.02750179 | R4P
    50.6 Moroccan_Jews_8
    49.4 Iraqi_Jew_9

    Distance slightly worse and fit not as good if we pretend you are 1/2 Italian Jewish 1/2 Iraqi Jewish.

    Target: K_scaled
    Distance: 2.7665% / 0.02766533 | R4P
    53.8 Italian_Jews_9
    46.2 Iraqi_Jew_9


    Problem before is that Moroccan Jews can have a little bit of variation among themselves, so 4 is too little to represent them.
    Last edited by Seabass; 06-07-2021 at 09:48 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanchik View Post
    H
    Is it possible that Morocco Jews are Greek Cretan decents ?
    From 3 groups Spaniards, Italians, and Greeks. Thats what pops up. Closest to the 0.
    I don't think it's very usual, usually Moroccan Jews are a mix Iberian/Levantine/Berber, with a quite high Iberian by the way.

    I would expect more common to find Italian rather than Greek, but who knows... they could be confused in some way.

    In that Greek Crete , I would add, there could be a not inconsiderable percentage of Levantine / East Mediterranean.

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  13. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seabass View Post
    Dude you totally can! I've doubled the sample size of a few Jewish groups, but they just maybe aren't in the public G25 yet. The Moroccan Jewish average is based off 4 in G25. My copy is based off 8 samples.

    Look at that . . . That's pretty accurate.

    Target: K_scaled
    Distance: 2.7502% / 0.02750179 | R4P
    50.6 Moroccan_Jews_8
    49.4 Iraqi_Jew_9

    Distance slightly worse and fit not as good if we pretend you are 1/2 Italian Jewish 1/2 Iraqi Jewish.

    Target: K_scaled
    Distance: 2.7665% / 0.02766533 | R4P
    53.8 Italian_Jews_9
    46.2 Iraqi_Jew_9


    Problem before is that Moroccan Jews can have a little bit of variation among themselves, so 4 is too little to represent them.
    Thank you so much bro. But isnt high distance 2.76 on G25 or its just like gedmatch distance ?

    Btw my first closest population is Maronite Lebanese (Catholic group in Lebanon).

  14. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seabass View Post
    Dude you totally can! I've doubled the sample size of a few Jewish groups, but they just maybe aren't in the public G25 yet. The Moroccan Jewish average is based off 4 in G25. My copy is based off 8 samples.

    Look at that . . . That's pretty accurate.

    Target: K_scaled
    Distance: 2.7502% / 0.02750179 | R4P
    50.6 Moroccan_Jews_8
    49.4 Iraqi_Jew_9

    Distance slightly worse and fit not as good if we pretend you are 1/2 Italian Jewish 1/2 Iraqi Jewish.

    Target: K_scaled
    Distance: 2.7665% / 0.02766533 | R4P
    53.8 Italian_Jews_9
    46.2 Iraqi_Jew_9


    Problem before is that Moroccan Jews can have a little bit of variation among themselves, so 4 is too little to represent them.
    Thank you so much bro. But isnt high distance 2.76 on G25 or its just like gedmatch distance ?

    Btw my first closest population is Maronite Lebanese (Catholic group in Lebanon).

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