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Thread: Can a person who genetically cluster with Anatolian Turks be ethnically an Arab?

  1. #11
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    Unfortunately, he didn’t want me to share his results but I can say his results are almost no different than an average Anatolian Turk (according to his Oracle results, his closest populations are Turkish and Azeri in most calculators). Also, his total East Eurasian score is about 8-10% on GEDmatch calculators, which seems to be very atypical for his ethnicity.

  2. #12
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    In some GEDmatch calculators’ Oracle, Lebanese Muslim and Druze are in 15-18. order with respect to his kit but in some other calculators, neither Lebanese Muslim, Christian, nor Druze do not even appear on his Oracle results.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rainn View Post
    Unfortunately, he didn’t want me to share his results but I can say his results are almost no different than an average Anatolian Turk (according to his Oracle results, his closest populations are Turkish and Azeri in most calculators). Also, his total East Eurasian score is about 8-10% on GEDmatch calculators, which seems to be very atypical for his ethnicity.
    If that is the case, he's definitely an assimilated Lebanese Turkmen (likely mixed), though 8-10% is the average for full Anatolian Turks. Usually people of Turkmen origin know about their background though, but outside of Turkish speaking ones in the northern border of Iraq/Syria with Turkey, all Turks in the Arab world have lost their language.

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    Just a scenario: If one of his Turkic related (not necessarily Turkish proper) ancestors was high in Central Asian ancestry, even if the rest of his ancestors would be fairly typical Lebanese Arabs, he could land somewhere in the range of modern Turks rather than his majority ancestry of Lebanese Arabs. Because that's, the Turkic-Central Asian component, the main distinctive feature of Turks in comparison to Lebanese (not the only, but the main). Also, I second that My Heritage is not the best platform to rely on ethnicity estimates. 23andme and AncestryDNA are usually far more accurate. The My Heritage results are themselves more often Oracle-like.
    But if he is also higher in Balkan-related ancestry, together with the Turkic one, then its indeed more likely he has signficant recent Turkish ancestry. Because the combination would be even hard to mimic.

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    That is quite huge. I knew about the Turkish community in the Levante but it seems like that there are no connections anymore to Turkey like many European Turks have. So he like Kulin said, he must be an assimilated Turk. Could you tell us how far his distances are with mdlp k16? Thank you very much.

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    Ottoman soldiers were placed in the Anatolian border region to protect against invaders. My paternal grandmas family has such history. She has a distant Lebanese match with Anatolian Turkish admixture. The match is an orphan, though, so doesn't know her family history. Somebody with undiluted Anatolian Turkish ancestry in the Levant is quite surprising. Maybe their village was founded by Ottoman soldiers, and they kept isolated. But then they wouldn't forget about their heritage. Weird situation.

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  11. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrtni View Post
    Do you have some results of Levantines with a stronger East Eurasian input? Would be nice to see some.
    Target: Lebanese_Muslim_Sunni
    Distance: 1.0867% / 0.01086675
    38.8 Levant_JOR_EBA
    23.6 TUR_Barcin_N
    16.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    8.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    8.0 Somali
    3.2 GEO_CHG
    1.0 Mongol

    Target: Lebanese_Muslim_Shia
    Distance: 0.9223% / 0.00922293
    40.2 Levant_JOR_EBA
    24.4 TUR_Barcin_N
    18.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    8.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    4.6 Somali
    2.6 GEO_CHG
    1.0 Mongol

    Target: Lebanese_Muslim
    Distance: 1.1726% / 0.01172610
    42.8 Levant_JOR_EBA
    24.4 TUR_Barcin_N
    16.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    10.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    3.2 Somali
    2.8 GEO_CHG
    0.8 Mongol

    Target: Lebanese_Christian_Maronite
    Distance: 0.9343% / 0.00934267
    48.2 Levant_JOR_EBA
    26.8 TUR_Barcin_N
    14.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    5.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    5.2 GEO_CHG

    Target: Lebanese_Christian_Greek_Orthodox
    Distance: 0.9317% / 0.00931745
    48.2 Levant_JOR_EBA
    27.2 TUR_Barcin_N
    14.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    5.4 GEO_CHG
    5.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara

    Target: Lebanese_Christian
    Distance: 0.9831% / 0.00983075
    49.2 Levant_JOR_EBA
    27.0 TUR_Barcin_N
    14.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    6.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    3.2 GEO_CHG
    0.2 Somali

    Target: Turkish_Kayseri
    Distance: 1.2327% / 0.01232735
    31.8 TUR_Barcin_N
    20.4 Levant_JOR_EBA
    15.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    12.8 GEO_CHG
    12.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    7.0 Mongol

    Target: Turkish_Istanbul
    Distance: 0.9714% / 0.00971403
    38.0 TUR_Barcin_N
    22.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    13.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    11.6 Levant_JOR_EBA
    7.6 GEO_CHG
    7.0 Mongol

    Target: Turkish_Central
    Distance: 0.9567% / 0.00956713
    31.0 TUR_Barcin_N
    19.4 Levant_JOR_EBA
    14.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    13.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    12.4 GEO_CHG
    9.4 Mongol

    Target: Turkish_Balikesir
    Distance: 0.7943% / 0.00794262
    32.8 TUR_Barcin_N
    22.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    14.8 Mongol
    12.8 Levant_JOR_EBA
    11.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    6.0 GEO_CHG

    Target: Turkish_Aydin
    Distance: 0.8200% / 0.00819966
    30.8 TUR_Barcin_N
    17.4 Levant_JOR_EBA
    16.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    15.2 Mongol
    10.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    9.6 GEO_CHG

    Target: Turkish_Adana
    Distance: 0.9680% / 0.00968007
    30.2 TUR_Barcin_N
    20.0 Levant_JOR_EBA
    18.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    14.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    9.2 GEO_CHG
    7.8 Mongol

    It is unfortunate that people categorically reject the notion that Levantine and Mesopotamian Muslims could genetically differ from their Christian/non-Muslim counterparts using the logic that "religion does not change genetics". Sure, if you convert to a new religion your own genes won't change but the religious persuasion of your ancestors can expose them to more contact and admixture with different groups than others.
    Last edited by Cynic; 06-10-2021 at 12:48 PM.

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  13. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrtni View Post
    That is quite huge. I knew about the Turkish community in the Levante but it seems like that there are no connections anymore to Turkey like many European Turks have. So he like Kulin said, he must be an assimilated Turk. Could you tell us how far his distances are with mdlp k16? Thank you very much.
    You're welcome, his MDLP K16 Oracle results show that his closest ethnic groups are Turkish from Adana, Istanbul, Kayseri and Azerbaijani from Agdzhabedi, Khachmaz, Dagestan. Lebanese are not even in the first 20.

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  15. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sangarius View Post
    Ottoman soldiers were placed in the Anatolian border region to protect against invaders. My paternal grandmas family has such history. She has a distant Lebanese match with Anatolian Turkish admixture. The match is an orphan, though, so doesn't know her family history. Somebody with undiluted Anatolian Turkish ancestry in the Levant is quite surprising. Maybe their village was founded by Ottoman soldiers, and they kept isolated. But then they wouldn't forget about their heritage. Weird situation.
    I have never encountered such a person but I guess some people might choose to assimilate themselves to the ethnic group they live in. Say, a Turkish living among Arabs in Lebanon. The Turkish person may begin to identify himself/herself as an Arab. Still, most of the society would not consider him/her truly as an Arab but the person might feel more comfortable and integrated when he/she identifies himself/herself as an Arab instead of Turkish. Maybe this was the case of my friend's ancestors, who knows...

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