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Thread: Spanish DNA

  1. #21
    Hi Jacob,

    I made a model for you based off of your known ancestries. I’m assuming your Canary ancestry is at the great grandparent level based on what this is telling me; the same goes for your Polish. You didn’t get Moroccan or West African ancestry but trace amounts can be hard to pick up. You definitely have strong Italian and Swedish signals.

    Target: Jacob12086_scaled
    Distance: 2.3945% / 0.02394518
    37.2 Swedish
    20.2 Italian_Molise
    16.4 Polish
    14.6 French_Occitanie
    11.6 Spanish_Canarias

    Target: Jacob8118_scaled
    Distance: 2.1257% / 0.02125687
    36.8 Swedish
    27.0 French_Occitanie
    17.6 Italian_Molise
    10.0 Polish
    7.4 Italian_Calabria
    1.2 english

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     Sokoski (06-18-2021)

  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by chocoholic View Post
    Hi Jacob,

    I made a model for you based off of your known ancestries. I’m assuming your Canary ancestry is at the great grandparent level based on what this is telling me; the same goes for your Polish. You didn’t get Moroccan or West African ancestry but trace amounts can be hard to pick up. You definitely have strong Italian and Swedish signals.

    Target: Jacob12086_scaled
    Distance: 2.3945% / 0.02394518
    37.2 Swedish
    20.2 Italian_Molise
    16.4 Polish
    14.6 French_Occitanie
    11.6 Spanish_Canarias

    Target: Jacob8118_scaled
    Distance: 2.1257% / 0.02125687
    36.8 Swedish
    27.0 French_Occitanie
    17.6 Italian_Molise
    10.0 Polish
    7.4 Italian_Calabria
    1.2 english
    This is so awesome! Thank you

    I suspect it could just be trace amounts or could be part of the general admixture that tests don't include

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     chocoholic (06-18-2021)

  5. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Sokoski View Post
    This is so awesome! Thank you

    I suspect it could just be trace amounts or could be part of the general admixture that tests don't include
    I’m assuming you’re ¼ Swedish, ¼ Italian, ⅛ Polish, ⅛ Spanish and ¼ French? If you don’t get sub-Saharan African on any commercial test, you probably don’t have any ancestry of that sort within the genealogical timeframe, or you just didn’t inherit it (like if it was an ancestor from the 1700s). It’s also common for many white Americans of colonial descent to have African American matches, since the average African American is about 75% West African and 25% NW European, so that may be why you’re getting those matches.

    Do you know for a fact that you have North African ancestry? If I recall, I think I modeled your mom’s G25 coordinates for you a while back and you mentioned one of your Calabrian ancestors was Sephardi/converso. However, 23andme is not a good indicator for that kind of ancestry; I have seen cases where full Sephardim get 95% Italian and full Calabrese/Sicilians (with no Jewish ancestry) get 30% West Asian/North African, so if you’re basing North African ancestry off of that test I would take it with a grain of salt. 23andme often conflates Mediterranean populations but G25 can distinguish them more precisely since it has 25 dimensions.

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  7. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by chocoholic View Post
    I’m assuming you’re ¼ Swedish, ¼ Italian, ⅛ Polish, ⅛ Spanish and ¼ French? If you don’t get sub-Saharan African on any commercial test, you probably don’t have any ancestry of that sort within the genealogical timeframe, or you just didn’t inherit it (like if it was an ancestor from the 1700s). It’s also common for many white Americans of colonial descent to have African American matches, since the average African American is about 75% West African and 25% NW European, so that may be why you’re getting those matches.

    Do you know for a fact that you have North African ancestry? If I recall, I think I modeled your mom’s G25 coordinates for you a while back and you mentioned one of your Calabrian ancestors was Sephardi/converso. However, 23andme is not a good indicator for that kind of ancestry; I have seen cases where full Sephardim get 95% Italian and full Calabrese/Sicilians (with no Jewish ancestry) get 30% West Asian/North African, so if you’re basing North African ancestry off of that test I would take it with a grain of salt. 23andme often conflates Mediterranean populations but G25 can distinguish them more precisely since it has 25 dimensions.
    Getting 30% is crazy! I have seen it too though on 23andme. I got 3% Congo and Angola on 23andme. I believe I am 1/8 Swedish but it is showing up more which is curious.

    As for the regions your estimate is pretty great. My dad who I tested not long ago got 60% Occitan and Provençal, so that definitely factors in big to the overall estimate. As far as paper trail I have only relatives from Italy who went to North Africa that I know of, no solid information on a North African born.

    Since my family tree is only complete on one branch it is hard for me to tell, but on commercial test I scored 7% NA on 23andme and on MH as well I scored some. Do you think I should test my mom on 23andme? Her ancestry gave her NA too

  8. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sokoski View Post
    Getting 30% is crazy! I have seen it too though on 23andme. I got 3% Congo and Angola on 23andme. I believe I am 1/8 Swedish but it is showing up more which is curious.

    As for the regions your estimate is pretty great. My dad who I tested not long ago got 60% Occitan and Provençal, so that definitely factors in big to the overall estimate. As far as paper trail I have only relatives from Italy who went to North Africa that I know of, no solid information on a North African born.

    Since my family tree is only complete on one branch it is hard for me to tell, but on commercial test I scored 7% NA on 23andme and on MH as well I scored some. Do you think I should test my mom on 23andme? Her ancestry gave her NA too
    hELLO,

    With your scaled coords i see you have no Iberomaurusian and no or very very few (around 0,5%) SSA. So, how can you have 7% on 23andMe for North African? and 3% Congo with 23andMe?? it's strange
    Last edited by Aben Aboo; 06-18-2021 at 03:46 AM.

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  10. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aben Aboo View Post
    hELLO,

    With your scaled coords i see you have no Iberomaurusian and no or very very few (around 0,5%) SSA. So, how can you have 7% on 23andMe for North African? and 3% Congo with 23andMe?? it's strange
    I know! I don’t understand it at all hence the questions. My coordinates are from Ancestry and Geneplaza so I’m not sure if it affects it but it makes no sense at all. I’m perplexed by it

  11. #27
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    Also the Sephardic is based on my grandfathers MH and gedmatch uploads. Is gedmatch a good indicator if it gives us both Sephardic?

  12. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Sokoski View Post
    I know! I don’t understand it at all hence the questions. My coordinates are from Ancestry and Geneplaza so I’m not sure if it affects it but it makes no sense at all. I’m perplexed by it
    Yes, your coordinates will slightly differ based on what company you tested with. If I add in Bantu samples, you actually do get a tiny amount of SSA so you do have some trace ancestry from that region. I will have to check the exact percentages later on.

    With regards to MyHeritage, their Sephardic sample isn’t very good. It’s only limited to North Africa and Sephardim can get varying scores on there. GEDMatch *can* be helpful but the oracles can be misleading at times. The admixture calculators are fairly outdated and you can get weird results based on what you inherited from each ancestor. Say you’re ¼ Sicilian but you got 35% from that grandparent…your oracle results may show ¼ Sephardi to balance out the results even though that isn’t accurate. G25 is the best indicator for Jewish ancestry (of any ethnic subgroup). From what Davidski told me, if you have a hard time breaking down a certain ancestry, it is likely to be a significant part of your heritage. I included Sephardi samples in the reference panel and you didn’t get any Jewish so if you had any (which is common in some enclaves of south Italy to varying degrees), it would be distant.

    You should also look for any Jewish matches and see if they triangulate on certain chromosomal segments. Historical research can be helpful too—I had a great grandfather who had 2 Italian parents but I found out his ancestral hometown was very Jewish and had a ghetto. I have cousins on that side who practiced Judaism. That ⅛ of my ancestry comes up as entirely Jewish on G25 when I weigh based on my other known ancestries (½ French/German and ⅜ British/Irish), rather than south Italian or Sicilian. Information on conversos in the ex-Kingdom of Naples is hard to find, but I have corresponded with many helpful people who have taught me more about the Italian Jewish community. Usually conversos tended to marry one another rather than marry “Old Christian” Italians, so yours would probably be far more distant.

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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by chocoholic View Post
    Yes, your coordinates will slightly differ based on what company you tested with. If I add in Bantu samples, you actually do get a tiny amount of SSA so you do have some trace ancestry from that region. I will have to check the exact percentages later on.

    With regards to MyHeritage, their Sephardic sample isn’t very good. It’s only limited to North Africa and Sephardim can get varying scores on there. GEDMatch *can* be helpful but the oracles can be misleading at times. The admixture calculators are fairly outdated and you can get weird results based on what you inherited from each ancestor. Say you’re ¼ Sicilian but you got 35% from that grandparent…your oracle results may show ¼ Sephardi to balance out the results even though that isn’t accurate. G25 is the best indicator for Jewish ancestry (of any ethnic subgroup). From what Davidski told me, if you have a hard time breaking down a certain ancestry, it is likely to be a significant part of your heritage. I included Sephardi samples in the reference panel and you didn’t get any Jewish so if you had any (which is common in some enclaves of south Italy to varying degrees), it would be distant.

    You should also look for any Jewish matches and see if they triangulate on certain chromosomal segments. Historical research can be helpful too—I had a great grandfather who had 2 Italian parents but I found out his ancestral hometown was very Jewish and had a ghetto. I have cousins on that side who practiced Judaism. That ⅛ of my ancestry comes up as entirely Jewish on G25 when I weigh based on my other known ancestries (½ French/German and ⅜ British/Irish), rather than south Italian or Sicilian. Information on conversos in the ex-Kingdom of Naples is hard to find, but I have corresponded with many helpful people who have taught me more about the Italian Jewish community. Usually conversos tended to marry one another rather than marry “Old Christian” Italians, so yours would probably be far more distant.
    Thank you so much for this response? I’m wondering where in Italy did your family come from? My family is from Monticello Ionico in Reggio Calabria and Marsico Nuovo Basilicata in Potenza mostly. One of my ancestors Ángela Judici was a conversó and it’s Interesting to hear from someone else with converso ancestors.

    My dads Polish side had names such as Weiss but I am not sure the Jewish is very strong in them. It seems that he has stronger French roots than I had believed previously. On gedmatch it shows I am 80% similar to Italian north of Spanish Andalucía. I am wondering what you get on gedmatch as well?

  15. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Sokoski View Post
    Thank you so much for this response? I’m wondering where in Italy did your family come from? My family is from Monticello Ionico in Reggio Calabria and Marsico Nuovo Basilicata in Potenza mostly. One of my ancestors Ángela Judici was a conversó and it’s Interesting to hear from someone else with converso ancestors.

    My dads Polish side had names such as Weiss but I am not sure the Jewish is very strong in them. It seems that he has stronger French roots than I had believed previously. On gedmatch it shows I am 80% similar to Italian north of Spanish Andalucía. I am wondering what you get on gedmatch as well?
    What year was Ángela born? My great great grandmother, who was also converso, had a very similar surname and I will message it to you since it’s uncommon. FWIW, a lot of Italian Jews changed their surnames to assimilate into the majority Catholic society. A couple of the surnames in my tree have straight up Arab Jewish origins, such as “Busacchio”, which is an Italianized form of “Abu Isaac” (father of Isaac). However, the vast majority of the surnames in my tree are found among Italian Jewish families, especially those in Rome. Abruzzo is close to Rome so this makes sense.

    In my case, my great grandfather’s family maintained their converso ties up until the 1890s when they immigrated to the U.S, which is why my Jewish signal is so strong on G25, because he was an ethnic Jew despite being a practicing Catholic. I do get consistent Italian Jewish/Sephardic results on Eurogenes K13 as well, but the oracles are limited and can only break down a few ancestries. GEDMatch has a hard time distinguishing south Italian vs Jewish vs Greek, however, which is why I advocate for using G25 to break down those components.

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