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Thread: Brahmin haplogroups in major groups in UP

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by altvred View Post
    I share your skepticism, we have no particularly valid reason to believe the Ottoman were L657 rather than some Srubnaya or Scytho-Siberian derived clade of Z93 that a lot of ancient and modern Turkic-speakers from Central Asia belong to.

    Also, the Turkish Y3* sample now split off into a separate branch with that Brazillian individual. Do you remember if the Ukrainian Cossack sample was Y3* or Y2*? Wanted to check and see maybe he's positive for that SNP as well.
    well the Ukrainian cossack is actually 1/4 Armenian/Caucasus-like (based on K13 eurogenes) what likely is the source of his M780* (ultimately from Iranians???) else we would already see more of it among Ukrainians or Russians imho. Could you maybe check his autosomal profile too?

    Zaporozhian Cossack Academic Sample ZU7033837

    # Population Percent
    1 Baltic 33.73
    2 North_Atlantic 19.89
    3 West_Asian 17
    4 East_Med 14.19
    5 West_Med 9.27
    6 South_Asian 2.42
    7 Amerindian 1.31
    8 Red_Sea 1.14
    9 Northeast_African 1.07

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Moldavian 9.84
    2 Croatian 12.16
    3 Serbian 12.67
    4 Romanian 13.16
    5 Bulgarian 13.75
    6 Hungarian 14.64
    7 Ukrainian_Lviv 15.36
    8 Ukrainian 16.62
    9 South_Polish 16.66
    10 Ukrainian_Belgorod 16.78
    11 Southwest_Russian 17.37
    12 Austrian 19.03
    13 Polish 19.35
    14 Tatar 19.43
    15 East_German 19.69
    16 Russian_Smolensk 19.93
    17 Estonian_Polish 20.86
    18 Erzya 21.15
    19 Kargopol_Russian 21.28
    20 Belorussian 21.41

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 62.6% Lithuanian + 37.4% Armenian @ 2.12
    2 71.6% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 28.4% Armenian @ 2.16
    3 70.9% Southwest_Russian + 29.1% Armenian @ 2.56
    4 68% Russian_Smolensk + 32% Armenian @ 2.65
    5 67% Estonian_Polish + 33% Armenian @ 2.84
    6 71.3% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 28.7% Georgian_Jewish @ 2.85
    7 66.4% Belorussian + 33.6% Armenian @ 2.98
    8 71.7% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 28.3% Assyrian @ 2.99
    9 69.6% Southwest_Russian + 30.4% Kurdish @ 3.04
    10 65.5% Estonian_Polish + 34.5% Kurdis

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  3. #42
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    "In 1037, the Seljuk Empire, a Turkic state, was founded northeast of Iran in Central Asia and quickly overran much of Persia, Iraq, and the Levant. By the 1060s, the Seljuk Empire bordered Byzantine Asia Minor. It should be noted that the Turks were a minority, ruling a Persian, Arab, and Kurdish majority ... By 1081, they were across the Bosphorus Straits from Constantinople. Although the Byzantines and Crusaders later recovered some territory in Asia Minor, from then on, the majority of the region remained under Turkish control."
    https://thediplomat.com/2016/06/the-...sia-to-turkey/

    I think that the Turki themselves were a small minority in Turkey.

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  5. #43
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    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4229899/
    "Y-R1a sub-clades expanded in the last thousand years, because not much time left since the common ancestor, and his haplotype is still around having relatively few mutations."
    Distribution of motifs in Y-DNA haplogroups (Hg) among 5281 Jews (J)

    Hg
    ...
    R1a–CTS6 8
    R1a–L1029
    R1a–L342/L657 5
    R1a–Z93 1
    R1a–SRY10831 1
    R1a–Z287 1
    R1a–CTS11962 1
    R1a–CTS3402 1
    R1a–CTS3412 1
    R1b–M269
    R1b–L23 1
    R1b–P311
    R–others

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  7. #44
    https://literaryblog.net/music-lyric...p3-music-video

    This link that Parasar had posted on the Osmanglu thread mentioned Naz Osmanglu as having tested positive for R-L657. If that's true then Naz Osmanglu isn't exactly some unknown osmaglu claimant. Rather he's very well known and unless there was some non-paretnity event he's pretty much accepted as being of ottoman stock and hence a descendant of Osman I.
    Having said that I couldn't find the original source for this claim although its seems to be rather widespread knowledge that he tested positive for R-L657.

  8. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by altvred View Post
    I share your skepticism, we have no particularly valid reason to believe the Ottoman were L657 rather than some Srubnaya or Scytho-Siberian derived clade of Z93 that a lot of ancient and modern Turkic-speakers from Central Asia belong to.

    Also, the Turkish Y3* sample now split off into a separate branch with that Brazillian individual. Do you remember if the Ukrainian Cossack sample was Y3* or Y2*? Wanted to check and see maybe he's positive for that SNP as well.
    So far all Russian, Ukrainian and Finno-Ugrian Z93 i could find is either under young Scytho-Siberian or Srubnaya (Scythian) clades but there is one super interesting exception. A Russian from molgen is under Z2124>YP413 (typical for Pashtuns, Anatolians, Iranians but absent among Saka and super rare north of Pamir). He is under this YP413 clade https://www.familytreedna.com/public...name=R-FT29096 . A East German from ftdna is also under YP413+ (Srubnaya?, West Asia?, Finno-Ugrians???)

    Попробовал сам воспользоваться этой программой , вот что получилось.
    ...
    А по факту прадед 1885 г.р. Шуя , Ивановская губерния. Вроде как есть родственники в Белоруссии.
    ...


    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Russian_Meshtchyora @ 5,874972
    2 Russian_Ryazan_Tula @ 6,432373
    3 Russian_Kursk @ 7,195581
    4 Russian_Voronezh @ 7,605431
    5 Russian_Rostov @ 7,70779
    6 Russian_Center @ 8,142429
    7 Russian_Oryol @ 8,466509
    8 Russian_Novgorod @ 9,129584
    9 Russian_Smolensk @ 9,208556
    10 Russian_Pskov @ 9,366272
    11 Russian_Tver @ 9,440908
    12 Russian_Tambov @ 9,643177
    13 Belarusian_East @ 9,660853
    14 Belarusian_West @ 9,924564
    15 Russian_Don_Cossack @ 10,153157
    16 Belarusian_Polesye @ 10,604508
    17 Ukrainian_Chernigov @ 10,608938
    18 Russian_Kostroma @ 10,791519
    19 Erzya @ 10,848025
    20 Russian_Bryansk @ 11,003978
    337 iterations.

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 Russian_Kostroma+PL_Sudovia @ 5,027136
    2 Russian_Kursk+Russian_Novgorod @ 5,461451
    3 Russian_Kostroma+PL_Podlasie_East_Mazovia @ 5,50136
    4 Russian_Kostroma+Russian_Kursk @ 5,567099
    5 Russian_Meshtchyora+Russian_Ryazan_Tula @ 5,597094

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  10. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldmountains View Post
    well the Ukrainian cossack is actually 1/4 Armenian/Caucasus-like (based on K13 eurogenes) what likely is the source of his M780* (ultimately from Iranians???) else we would already see more of it among Ukrainians or Russians imho. Could you maybe check his autosomal profile too?

    Zaporozhian Cossack Academic Sample ZU7033837

    # Population Percent
    1 Baltic 33.73
    2 North_Atlantic 19.89
    3 West_Asian 17
    4 East_Med 14.19
    5 West_Med 9.27
    6 South_Asian 2.42
    7 Amerindian 1.31
    8 Red_Sea 1.14
    9 Northeast_African 1.07

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Moldavian 9.84
    2 Croatian 12.16
    3 Serbian 12.67
    4 Romanian 13.16
    5 Bulgarian 13.75
    6 Hungarian 14.64
    7 Ukrainian_Lviv 15.36
    8 Ukrainian 16.62
    9 South_Polish 16.66
    10 Ukrainian_Belgorod 16.78
    11 Southwest_Russian 17.37
    12 Austrian 19.03
    13 Polish 19.35
    14 Tatar 19.43
    15 East_German 19.69
    16 Russian_Smolensk 19.93
    17 Estonian_Polish 20.86
    18 Erzya 21.15
    19 Kargopol_Russian 21.28
    20 Belorussian 21.41

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 62.6% Lithuanian + 37.4% Armenian @ 2.12
    2 71.6% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 28.4% Armenian @ 2.16
    3 70.9% Southwest_Russian + 29.1% Armenian @ 2.56
    4 68% Russian_Smolensk + 32% Armenian @ 2.65
    5 67% Estonian_Polish + 33% Armenian @ 2.84
    6 71.3% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 28.7% Georgian_Jewish @ 2.85
    7 66.4% Belorussian + 33.6% Armenian @ 2.98
    8 71.7% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 28.3% Assyrian @ 2.99
    9 69.6% Southwest_Russian + 30.4% Kurdish @ 3.04
    10 65.5% Estonian_Polish + 34.5% Kurdis
    Yep, there is South-Caucasian admixture in that individual (distinctly not North-Caucasian, lower affinity towards the Abkhaz/Circassians compared to Armenians) - hard to definitely say it's coming from his direct paternal line though, I've seen Zaporzhian Cossacks on FTDNA projects with Mongol/Kalmyk Y-DNA so nothing would surprise me at this point. The sample in question is 'Cosk2'. It's hilariously incompetent how the Estonian Biocentre managed to find a 'Cossack' with an Armenian grandparent and not mention it anywhere.

     


     
    Last edited by altvred; 06-22-2021 at 08:02 PM.
    YDNA (P): R-Y33
    YDNA (P, maternal line): R-Y20756
    YDNA(M): E-Y6938

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  12. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaazi View Post
    The Uttarakhand Pahadi Bharadwaj Brahmins have major R1a with interesting O2 and O3.

    To add to that tally. @Pnb says all the Kumaoni / Kumai Brahmins of Nepal are all R1a so far while the Uttarakhand Kumaoni Brahmins I saw in gedmatch were below:

    Clan Ethnicity Y mt
    Pathak Kumaoni Brahmin C-M130 -
    Paliwal Kumaoni Brahmin R-Y7 M39b1
    Tripathi Kumaoni Brahmin C3 R6a1
    Joshi Kumaoni Brahmin R-M207 H5a1

    Another prospective Kumaoni Brahmin R-Y6 U2c1
    I may not have the latest and the complete data, but according to the latest data, majority of Bahuns are R1a. Equal % of y6 and y7. For Kumai Bahuns, I've seen few R2s (Shimkhada), Cs (Joshi - CP92, Pathak - CK96), J2b (Pandey, another Pandey was R1a), as well. All others were R1a. For the latest haplogroup data on Bahuns, I would ask @poi.

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  14. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaazi View Post
    The Uttarakhand Pahadi Bharadwaj Brahmins have major R1a with interesting O2 and O3.

    To add to that tally. @Pnb says all the Kumaoni / Kumai Brahmins of Nepal are all R1a so far while the Uttarakhand Kumaoni Brahmins I saw in gedmatch were below:

    Clan Ethnicity Y mt
    Pathak Kumaoni Brahmin C-M130 -
    Paliwal Kumaoni Brahmin R-Y7 M39b1
    Tripathi Kumaoni Brahmin C3 R6a1
    Joshi Kumaoni Brahmin R-M207 H5a1

    Another prospective Kumaoni Brahmin R-Y6 U2c1
    The Joshi sample is possibly R1b-M343 > BY14355 > FTB1 (sister subclade to R1b-PH155) according to the Y-DNA of a Joshi sample from the "R1b Basal Subclades" project on FTDNA.
    YFull: YF72440 (FTDNA - IN41220)

    Ancestral Haplos (Punjabi Jatt):
    * Father: R2-M479 > M124 > V1180 > SK2142 > Y1379 > Y1383 > Y154920* (xZ6135) - M5a1a-G9064A (185G)
    * Maternal Uncle: R1b-M343 > M269 > Z2103 > Z2109 > Y14416 > Y35099 > Y84821 - U7a3a-A9852G > G6150A > C15433T
    * MGMs MGF: R1a-M420 > M198 > Z93 > L657 > Y7 - ?

    Hidden Content

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  16. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaronbee2010 View Post
    The Joshi sample is possibly R1b-M343 > BY14355 > FTB1 (sister subclade to R1b-PH155) according to the Y-DNA of a Joshi sample from the "R1b Basal Subclades" project on FTDNA.
    Nice point made. The Joshi guy's matches in gedmatch looks like he's from India rather than Nepal. He's likely some basal line of R, else he would have easily got some deeper subclades. Isn't Uzbekistan Surkhan Darya as well R-FTB1?

    When I clicked on the surname, it didnt show the last name. Can you tell me the last name of the Bahun sample from Nepal which tested the basal subclade of R-Y944?
    Last edited by kaazi; 06-23-2021 at 10:04 AM.

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  18. #50
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    Nice point made. The Joshi guy's matches in gedmatch looks like he's from India rather than Nepal. He's likely some basal line of R, else he would have easily got some deeper subclades. Isn't Uzbekistan Surkhan Darya as well R-FTB1?
    That Joshi guy, is me. And I am indeed from India.
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