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Thread: How Ancient DNA is Rewriting India’s History

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    How Ancient DNA is Rewriting India’s History


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    An interview with Johannes Krause about Human Evolutionary History from early Hominin to Homo Sapiens, from hunter gatherer cultures to farming communities and its genetic and cultural imprints on our societies today; though focused on Europe, general idea is applicable to all parts of the world including South Asia.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4DNpMAf3aI
    https://www.shh.mpg.de/2890/johanneskrause
     

    distance: 2.13
    sample: Kapisa (Kapisa)
    CG IVCp • IRN Shahr I Sokhta BA2 I8728: 42.5
    Dzharkutan1 BA • Average: 37.5
    Srubnaya Alakul MLBA • Average: 17
    Chokhopani 2700BP • Average: 3

    sample: Kapisa:Kapisa-Dad
    distance: 2.0944
    Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2 • I8728: 41.5
    Bustan_BA • Average: 37
    Srubnaya_Alakul_MLBA • Average: 19
    Chokhopani_2700BP • Average: 2.5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shujauddin View Post
    I am acqainted with a friend of Imtiaz Shams (the presenter of the video)

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    The comment section is hilarious and so politically charged. You would think that the Indo-Aryans having nothing to do with the IVC or it’s decline and actually having migrated into South Asia rather than aggressively invaded (no current data suggests an invasion; also the Indo-Aryans were already heavily admixed with Iranian N like farmers from the BMAC) would be enough to appease people but no.
    Last edited by Sapporo; 07-17-2021 at 12:52 PM.
    pegasus modeling:
    sample": "Punjabi_Jat:Sapporo_AGUser",
    "fit": 1.1506,
    "IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3": 43.33,
    "TKM_Gonur1_BA": 31.67,
    "RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 25,
    "closestDistances": [

    avatar credit goes out to aaronbee2010

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapporo View Post
    The comment section is hilarious and so politically charged. You would think that the Indo-Aryans having nothing to do with the IVC or it’s decline and actually having migrated into South Asia rather than aggressively invaded (no current data suggests an invasion; also the Indo-Aryans were already heavily admixed with Iranian N farmers from the BMAC) would be enough to appease people but no.
    They don't know the details. There are probably a few thousand of these people. They only parrot one narrative. I got into an argument with a guy on Twitter Spaces who is a published writer from Southern India and he just kept quoting the same old archaeological arguments. Flora and fauna of the Rig Veda, imagery of the Rig Veda. Nothing changed his mind, even the language references he disregarded. He was adamant that I was a liar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapporo View Post
    The comment section is hilarious and so politically charged. You would think that the Indo-Aryans having nothing to do with the IVC or it’s decline and actually having migrated into South Asia rather than aggressively invaded (no current data suggests an invasion; also the Indo-Aryans were already heavily admixed with Iranian N farmers from the BMAC) would be enough to appease people but no.
    I have told at least one academic here who advises the Department of Education on the curriculum in the UK, to read up on the work of the Reich lab and Tony Joseph's work on Early Indians, I do think the South Asian diaspora would benefit a lot from their work. I think Razib Khan favours the idea of an Aryan integration taking place rather than an invasion if I remember correctly.


    Quote Originally Posted by agent_lime View Post
    They don't know the details. There are probably a few thousand of these people. They only parrot one narrative. I got into an argument with a guy on Twitter Spaces who is a published writer from Southern India and he just kept quoting the same old archaeological arguments. Flora and fauna of the Rig Veda, imagery of the Rig Veda. Nothing changed his mind, even the language references he disregarded. He was adamant that I was a liar.
    David Anthony talks about how the Rig Veda mentions tumuli burials in the steppe style. It is a strong rebuttal of the idea of an Aryan migration out of India.
    Last edited by deuterium_1; 07-17-2021 at 10:40 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapporo View Post
    The comment section is hilarious and so politically charged. You would think that the Indo-Aryans having nothing to do with the IVC or it’s decline and actually having migrated into South Asia rather than aggressively invaded (no current data suggests an invasion; also the Indo-Aryans were already heavily admixed with Iranian N like farmers from the BMAC) would be enough to appease people but no.
    So then when it comes to Y-DNA the Indo-Aryan migrants very likely carried certain clades of R1a, J2a, L and R2 with them into South Asia. R1a coming from their original IE ancestors with J2a, L and R2 being picked up via admixture with Iran_N and BMAC peoples.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J Man View Post
    So then when it comes to Y-DNA the Indo-Aryan migrants very likely carried certain clades of R1a, J2a, L and R2 with them into South Asia. R1a coming from their original IE ancestors with J2a, L and R2 being picked up via admixture with Iran_N and BMAC peoples.
    J, L and R2 should be present in IVC prior to arrival of the Indo aryans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyDLuffy View Post
    J, L and R2 should be present in IVC prior to arrival of the Indo aryans.
    Yup haplogroup frequencies from Narasimhan et al in BA South Asia:
    Haplogroup South Asia BA
    F 0.143
    H1a 0.286
    J 0.143
    J2a 0.286
    R 0.143

    It's a mix of local hunter gatherers and farmers related (that R is R2).
    We would find L as well with more samples analyzed.

    From Iran/Turan Neolithic to CA:
    Haplogroup Iran/Turan M/N Iran/Turan C/EN
    J 0.235
    J1 0.118
    J2a 0.118
    J2b 0.118
    L2 0.059
    Q 0.059
    R 0.059
    R2a 1 0.118
    T 0.059
    T1a 0.059
    Last edited by Kapisa; 07-17-2021 at 08:32 PM.
     

    distance: 2.13
    sample: Kapisa (Kapisa)
    CG IVCp • IRN Shahr I Sokhta BA2 I8728: 42.5
    Dzharkutan1 BA • Average: 37.5
    Srubnaya Alakul MLBA • Average: 17
    Chokhopani 2700BP • Average: 3

    sample: Kapisa:Kapisa-Dad
    distance: 2.0944
    Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2 • I8728: 41.5
    Bustan_BA • Average: 37
    Srubnaya_Alakul_MLBA • Average: 19
    Chokhopani_2700BP • Average: 2.5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kapisa View Post
    Yup haplogroup frequencies from Narasimhan et al in BA South Asia:
    Haplogroup South Asia BA
    F 0.143
    H1a 0.286
    J 0.143
    J2a 0.286
    R 0.143

    It's a mix of local hunter gatherers and farmers related (that R is R2).
    We would find L as well with more samples analyzed.

    From Iran/Turan Neolithic to CA:
    Haplogroup Iran/Turan M/N Iran/Turan C/EN
    J 0.235
    J1 0.118
    J2a 0.118
    J2b 0.118
    L2 0.059
    Q 0.059
    R 0.059
    R2a 1 0.118
    T 0.059
    T1a 0.059
    The presence of L1a1 in far south groups like Sinhalese, Tamils and Mallus is possibly due to IVC rather than Indo aryans.

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