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Thread: R-YP4141 (R1a2) rising from the ashes! New branches discovered!

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  1. #1
    Registered Users
    Zaza / Laz / Turk / Kurd
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1a YP4141>YP5018
    mtDNA (M)

    Lazistan Iran Safavid Empire Kurdistan Turkey

    R-YP4141 (R1a2) rising from the ashes! New branches discovered!

    R-YP4141 (R1a2) rising from the ashes!

    Ever since I can remember I have always been fascinated by ancient history and as a kid I even dreamt about one day becoming a famous archaeologist. The thought of digging up the ruins of lost city in a field in a far-off land, or unearthing an artefact from an ancient civilisation and contributing to science was always very appealing to me.

    My story starts one and a half years ago was when I decided to take my first Y-DNA test with Family Tree DNA. My brother had taken a test with 23andme so I knew that I belonged to haplogroup R1a but I wanted to do a deeper test in order to learn the exact clade. I did not know it at the time, but this would be the beginning of a wonderful journey of discovery that would enable me to trace my paternal line further than I had ever imagined was possible.

    On the very day that my results were published, before I even had a chance to see it, I was contacted by a couple of very excited people who quickly introduced themselves as distant cousins of mine and explained that we belonged to an exceedingly rare clade of R1a, the first clade to diverge from M420 to be exact. They invited me to join a WhatsApp group that they had created with other YP4141>YP5018 cousins. I quickly made friends with my newfound albeit very distant cousins, and we spent countless hours, days, weeks getting to know each other and discussing various theories about the origin and history of our rare and mysterious clade. These theories were mostly tongue in cheek and included many outlandish notions such as being descended from ancient Hittites and Indo-Iranians, to being descended from one of the lost Jewish tribes of Israel, to my favourite theory, being teleported from space by aliens. Needless to say, none of which was based on any evidence what-so-ever, especially the theory about the aliens.

    In my spare time I tried to do my own research about R-YP4141, but I quickly realised that there was little to no information to be found online about our line. The only information that I could find was either from YFull, the results page of FTDNA’s R1a Project, and couple of outdated posts on YP5018 mainly in this forum. My frustration for the lack of information and data drove me to decide then and there to make it my mission to learn as much about R-YP4141 as possible and to compile that information and to share it with anyone interested in learning about it. I did not want any future testers from our clade to go through the disappointment that I went through, to risk losing interest and giving up. So, I went off and created a Facebook group titled ‘R-YP4141 & Subclades’. In the beginning things were very slow, we only had a handful of members and the majority of them were friends from our WhatsApp group and a few male relatives, but things were about to change for the better. One day, out of the blue three people joined the group who we did not recognise. One by one they introduced themselves as belonging to our sister branch YP4132>YP4131 from the British Isles and thanked us for creating the Facebook group. We welcomed them warmly as they started inviting other YP4131 members to join our group. We were so excited to meet people from another branch of YP4141. The best thing of all was that these new people happened to be just as passionate about discovering our shared past as we were, and it kicked off a collaboration and ultimately a friendship that is still continuing today.

    Fast forward twelve months and things are looking vastly different to when I first received my results one and a half years ago. Today we have our own FTDNA Project titled ‘R1a YP4141 & Subclades’ with 151 members strong and growing. In the short time we have grown our project and promoted countless Big Y-700 tests, and as a result have been directly responsible for the discovery of completely new branches of YP4141 in places like Germany, Italy, Iran and India. We were able to grow the pitiful YP4141 haplotwig into an haplotree that we can all be proud of.

    Today, thanks to our hard work we are finally starting to see that R-YP4141 is not as mysterious as what we initially imagined it to be. We have learnt that its origin was indeed in Eastern Europe like all other clades of R1a. The 3rd oldest R1a I5876 Dereivka Mesolithic belongs to the same line as YP5018. R-YP4141 is in fact just a microcosm of its much more prominent and prolific R-M417 cousin. They both cover roughly the same geographic area; the only difference is that there are a lot fewer of us out there than our R-M417 brethren.

    I believe that I can even link one of the branches (R-FT315528) to Indo-Iranians and the Z93 expansion. Although we don't have a tonne of data we have an atDNA of an 3566 year old individual (I4773) from an Andronovo site in Eastern Kazakhstan belonging to YP4132* and downstream branches are in Iran, India and around the Persian Gulf.

    Although that dream of being an archaeologist never did eventuate, I count myself incredibly lucky to have found a purpose that is just as exciting and meaningful in my adulthood. I look forward to continuing the work of our project for many years to come and advancing scientific knowledge about our small section in the history of humanity.

    YP4141 chart Updated 2.png

    I created the above chart after being inspired by the original R1a chart by L. Lubicz-Lapinski. It is still a work in progress and I will continue to update it as we continue collect more data and discover more and branches.

    Please feel free to analyse the chart and discuss any of the findings in the comments section below.

    Lastly, if there are any lost R-YP4141 members out there you can reach us in the following links.

    FTDNA Project -

    Facebook Group -

    YFull Group -

    Last edited by TheAnatolian; 07-18-2021 at 01:15 AM.

  2. The Following 24 Users Say Thank You to TheAnatolian For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (07-17-2021),  Alain (07-20-2021),  alchemist223 (07-17-2021),  Alessandro Max (07-20-2021),  altvred (07-21-2021),  Artmar (07-22-2021),  btmacdowell (07-19-2021),  Coldmountains (07-20-2021),  Darko (07-21-2021),  discreetmaverick (07-17-2021),  dosas (07-21-2021),  JLJD (07-19-2021),  JoeyP37 (07-17-2021),  Kulin (07-20-2021),  leorcooper19 (07-20-2021),  Lupriac (07-20-2021),  Luso (07-17-2021),  Marmaduke (07-17-2021),  Michał (07-17-2021),  parasar (07-17-2021),  Pribislav (07-19-2021),  Riverman (07-21-2021),  Smilelover (07-17-2021),  Theramster (07-21-2021)

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