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Thread: Who were the Sea Peoples?

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    Who were the Sea Peoples?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Cynic View Post
    The only ancient individual on G25 that to my knowledge we can be confident was a "Sea Person" is ASH068, from IAI Ashkelon.

    Levant_Ashkelon_IA1:ASH068,0.108132,0.156392,-0.003771,-0.065569,0.024312,-0.02761,0.00893,-0.008538,0.001841,0.054306,-0.002598,0.015586,-0.023042,0.003441,-0.022801,0.012198,0.031553,0.004307,0.008547,-0.009755,-0.006364,0.016446,0.011462,-0.005302,0.005389

    Target: Levant_Ashkelon_IA1:ASH068
    Distance: 2.8477% / 0.02847711 | R3P
    36.0 GRC_N
    32.2 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Talin
    31.8 UKR_Trypillia

    Distance to: Levant_Ashkelon_IA1:ASH068
    0.04197785 GRC_Mycenaean
    0.04891667 ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA_o
    0.04912456 GRC_Cycladic_EBA
    0.05225689 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2
    0.05422965 BGR_IA
    0.05529877 BGR_Krepost_N
    0.05713229 GRC_Minoan_Lassithi
    0.05885393 ITA_Sicily_MBA
    0.06032761 Levant_Ashkelon_IA1
    0.06173414 DEU_MA_Baiuvaric_o

    Seems like a pretty clearly Mycenaean-like profile.
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by leorcooper19 View Post
    The only ancient individual on G25 that to my knowledge we can be confident was a "Sea Person" is ASH068, from IAI Ashkelon.

    Levant_Ashkelon_IA1:ASH068,0.108132,0.156392,-0.003771,-0.065569,0.024312,-0.02761,0.00893,-0.008538,0.001841,0.054306,-0.002598,0.015586,-0.023042,0.003441,-0.022801,0.012198,0.031553,0.004307,0.008547,-0.009755,-0.006364,0.016446,0.011462,-0.005302,0.005389

    Target: Levant_Ashkelon_IA1:ASH068
    Distance: 2.8477% / 0.02847711 | R3P
    36.0 GRC_N
    32.2 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Talin
    31.8 UKR_Trypillia

    Distance to: Levant_Ashkelon_IA1:ASH068
    0.04197785 GRC_Mycenaean
    0.04891667 ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA_o
    0.04912456 GRC_Cycladic_EBA
    0.05225689 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2
    0.05422965 BGR_IA
    0.05529877 BGR_Krepost_N
    0.05713229 GRC_Minoan_Lassithi
    0.05885393 ITA_Sicily_MBA
    0.06032761 Levant_Ashkelon_IA1
    0.06173414 DEU_MA_Baiuvaric_o

    Seems like a pretty clearly Mycenaean-like profile.
    Where's the steppe though? Myceneans had some steppe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cynic View Post
    Where's the steppe though? Myceneans had some steppe.
    Target: GRC_Mycenaean
    Distance: 1.7934% / 0.01793417
    73.6 TUR_Barcin_N
    11.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    7.6 GEO_CHG
    5.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    2.0 Levant_Natufian

    Target: Levant_Ashkelon_IA1:ASH068
    Distance: 3.5903% / 0.03590342
    76.4 TUR_Barcin_N
    8.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    7.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    5.8 GEO_CHG
    1.2 WHG

    Still present, just a little less than the current Mycenaean average, which FWIW is only based on 4 relatively distinct individuals.
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cynic View Post
    Where's the steppe though? Myceneans had some steppe.
    How do you know?

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    Thanks Leo! And distance of ASH068 (IAI Ashkelon) to modern populations:

    Distance to: Levant_Ashkelon_IA1:ASH068

    0.06537559 Italian_Campania
    0.06543049 Italian_Basilicata
    0.06617362 Greek_Kos
    0.06679401 Italian_Calabria
    0.06688970 Italian_Apulia
    0.06899958 Greek_Laconia
    0.06922775 Italian_Lazio
    0.06947669 Italian_Molise
    0.06991192 Greek_Izmir
    0.07015019 Greek_Dodecanese
    0.07023108 Italian_Abruzzo
    0.07165732 Italian_Umbria
    0.07174106 Sicilian_East
    0.07196414 Greek_Crete
    0.07367755 Maltese
    0.07374210 Ashkenazi_Germany
    0.07415329 Italian_Jew
    0.07489050 Cypriot_B
    0.07544803 Italian_Marche
    0.07599122 Greek_Peloponnese
    0.07635523 Sicilian_West
    0.07653959 Romaniote_Jew
    0.07687525 French_Corsica
    0.07858603 Italian_Tuscany
    0.07903588 Ashkenazi_Belarussia

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    Quote Originally Posted by leorcooper19 View Post
    Target: GRC_Mycenaean
    Distance: 1.7934% / 0.01793417
    73.6 TUR_Barcin_N
    11.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    7.6 GEO_CHG
    5.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    2.0 Levant_Natufian

    Target: Levant_Ashkelon_IA1:ASH068
    Distance: 3.5903% / 0.03590342
    76.4 TUR_Barcin_N
    8.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    7.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    5.8 GEO_CHG
    1.2 WHG

    Still present, just a little less than the current Mycenaean average, which FWIW is only based on 4 relatively distinct individuals.
    Fair enough. The Kura Araxes may have been be hiding some steppe.

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    I wouldn't read too much in a single find, even though its great we have one at all. Because from the start, the Sea People seems to have been kind of a migration period label, under which different people moved, and it was also the label of an alliance, probably the biggest of this migration period which reached the Near East and Egypt. In both cases, its not one term for one homogeneous people, but for different people participating in a protohistorical and historical event of great importance. Most likely caused by a domino effect in the North, in which, among others, the ancestors of most E-V13 did participate. And with one group pushing the other, old networks being teared down, some were most likely standing in front of the sea, and had nowhere else to go, because in their back where the other people pushing, so they made a plan to first plunder and than conquer the good and fertile lands of the Near East, and finally Egypt. This plan didn't work out and after it failed, what remained became mercenaries, like in Egypt, or settled down and most likely mixed with the locals.
    If we ever would get a lot of samples from people related to the Sea People in both senses, I'm pretty sure they would be very diverse and not that homogeneous. I wouldn't expect them to be particularly high in the steppe component though, because it seems those on the move, wandering and sailing over to the Near East, were mostly those living in the very South before. Therefore I would expect at that time an increase of steppe ancestry in their former homelands rather, which they left deliberately or because they had to. So rather not more steppe ancestry than the Mycaneans. Though who knows, probably a more Northern ethnic group participated as well, and one day one of its members gets tested and will surprise us.

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    Sea peoples werent really a people, and honestly they werent very "sea" either. Sure they came in boats and from am Egyptian perspective they came from the sea, but this name makes them sound akin to bronze age viking which they certainly were not.

    Several Sea Peoples groups have been identified with historical populations. It's mostly populations of the eastern Mediteranean but some archaeologists have found tantilizing links between the eastern and central Urnfield cultures and the Sea Peoples, so "northern" mercenaries played an important role here too.

    Although mostly based onomastics, many people hold these connections: Philistines (Peleset), Lycians (Lukka), Greeks (Ekwesh, Weshesh, Danoi), Tyrrhenians (Tjeker), Sicels of Siciliy (Shekelesh and Sardinia (Sherden).

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    Quote Originally Posted by CopperAxe View Post
    Sea peoples werent really a people, and honestly they werent very "sea" either. Sure they came in boats and from am Egyptian perspective they came from the sea, but this name makes them sound akin to bronze age viking which they certainly were not.

    Several Sea Peoples groups have been identified with historical populations. It's mostly populations of the eastern Mediteranean but some archaeologists have found tantilizing links between the eastern and central Urnfield cultures and the Sea Peoples, so "northern" mercenaries played an important role here too.

    Although mostly based onomastics, many people hold these connections: Philistines (Peleset), Lycians (Lukka), Greeks (Ekwesh, Weshesh, Danoi), Tyrrhenians (Tjeker), Sicels of Siciliy (Shekelesh and Sardinia (Sherden).
    What? Sea(l)s?

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