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Thread: Would you say the Jewish contribution Is stronger In Argentina or Mexico?

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    Would you say the Jewish contribution Is stronger In Argentina or Mexico?

    I would like to know If you are Ashkenazi or Israeli and based on your gedmatch did you happened to have more connection towards Mexicans or Argentineans?
    Last edited by Lebouz; 07-19-2021 at 02:42 AM.

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    We have far more Mexican results than Argentinian. I think the Argentinian Colonial population was not different from Chile or Paraguay and they received a very big European (Italian and Spanish) immigrant population in the end of the 19th and beginning of the 20th Century that changed the demography in some cities like Buenos Aires but not in the interior. The only way to answer your question is the observation of results. Mexicans have a considerable database and we can observe somatic and Y-DNA results, just observe the matches in some haplogroups like Y-DNA J1, the most geopolitical because they have always lived in frontiers (of war) and you can find completely different clades related to different origins, languages, religions, geographies and ethnicities. After several years I can tell you genetic genealogy is not popular in Argentina for obvious reasons, they also have Amerindian and African contributions far bigger than their society would like to find in their national imaginary/identity, we have Mexican, Brazilian and other FTDNA Projects but they don't have. Spain is a confederation of Iberian regions with a center in Castile and only Portugal was strong enough to preserve an ethnonational autonomy, so Latin American Colonial population in Spanish (Castilian) speaking countries is already a mix of different Iberian regions (Basques, Catalans, Galicians,, Extremadurans, Andalusians, Canarians, Castilians). I think the New Christian (former Iberian Jewish) substrate has been present in all countries but they also had differences.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RCO View Post
    We have far more Mexican results than Argentinian. I think the Argentinian Colonial population was not different from Chile or Paraguay and they received a very big European (Italian and Spanish) immigrant population in the end of the 19th and beginning of the 20th Century that changed the demography in some cities like Buenos Aires but not in the interior. The only way to answer your question is the observation of results. Mexicans have a considerable database and we can observe somatic and Y-DNA results, just observe the matches in some haplogroups like Y-DNA J1, the most geopolitical because they have always lived in frontiers (of war) and you can find completely different clades related to different origins, languages, religions, geographies and ethnicities. After several years I can tell you genetic genealogy is not popular in Argentina for obvious reasons, they also have Amerindian and African contributions far bigger than their society would like to find in their national imaginary/identity, we have Mexican, Brazilian and other FTDNA Projects but they don't have. Spain is a confederation of Iberian regions with a center in Castile and only Portugal was strong enough to preserve an ethnonational autonomy, so Latin American Colonial population in Spanish (Castilian) speaking countries is already a mix of different Iberian regions (Basques, Catalans, Galicians,, Extremadurans, Andalusians, Canarians, Castilians). I think the New Christian (former Iberian Jewish) substrate has been present in all countries but they also had differences.

    Yup I'm aware Argentina Brazil and Uruguay received a massive European immigration, that was able to "whitten" their population and some how change their demographics.


    Also know Buenos Aires has a considerable amount of Ashkenazi Jews, but I want to know If Mexico despite being entirely Colonial has more Jewish founding effect since the Spanish conquest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lebouz View Post
    I would like to know If you are Ashkenazi or Israeli and based on your gedmatch did you happened to have more connection towards Mexicans or Argentineans?
    Mexicans first place and Puerto Ricans in second place, Dominicans in 3rd place for DNA matches. Historically, per Jewish history, explanation making most sense is common (18th Century) Sefaradi ancestors, whose descendants partly merged into Ashkenazi families, and partly assimilated into non-Jewish Latin American families.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Targum View Post
    Mexicans first place and Puerto Ricans in second place, Dominicans in 3rd place for DNA matches. Historically, per Jewish history, explanation making most sense is common (18th Century) Sefaradi ancestors, whose descendants partly merged into Ashkenazi families, and partly assimilated into non-Jewish Latin American families.
    Would you say the Jewishness of Argentina Is highly overrated?

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    Argentina has a large Jewish population,mostly from early 20th Century Ottoman Empire, East Europe and Russia, but very little of the early colonial Converso thing that Mexico had. Sefaradim from Argentina are mostly folks whose grandparents or great-grandparents came from Turkey, Greece, Aleppo or Morocco.

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    I think there are holes in the data, so as RCO indicated we don't have much info on Argentina. The most well-known study calculated Sephardic(-like) ancestry in Latin Americans at 4% in Chile, 3% in Colombia, 3% in Mexico, 2% in Peru and 1% in Brazil (the only countries studied in that paper), but I think their data is pretty limited.

    I believe Targum is correct that Argentina was not a major destination for conversos and their descendants. It has by far the largest contemporary Jewish population, but these are descendants of 19th and 20th-century immigrants.

    Anecdotally, Argentina, at 32 matches, is my mom's #2 country for Latin American matches (after Brazil) on MyHeritage (easier to work with since you can search by country), but I'd attribute virtually all of those to Jewish immigrant ancestry within the past century. Mexico is in 3rd place for her, at 23 matches. Again, these are mostly due to recent immigrant ancestry, but at least 2 of her Mexican matches seem to have deep roots in Mexico and family trees with only Spanish (or Hispanicized) surnames on both sides. She also has likely converso-descended matches from Brazil (3 or 4 out of 68 matches), Colombia (2 out of 3 matches), Puerto Rico (1 of 2 matches) and Paraguay (1 match). I have even more converso-descended matches than her, because MyHeritage screens out all her matches who share less than 12 cM (they do that for all customers estimated to be over 75% Jewish), whereas for me (50% of my recent ancestry is Jewish) I get lots of matches under 12 cM.

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