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Thread: E-S7461 Question

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by rafc View Post
    Yes, it was found in a Scythian burial ground, but autosomally he resembled an Iron Age Balkan person, a Thracian for example.
    Daco-Thracians and Iranians were very close, had a lot of cultural exchange and at times the first were conquered by tribes of the latter. So we have to assume, latest since the beginning of the Iron Age, from Cimmerian times on, a fairly big what we might call backflow from the Daco-Thracian sphere. This is how E-V13 entered various Iranian people I'd say and was brought to the Caucasus, Near East, Central and even East Asia. East Asia only individual clades, but typically, those Chinese samples we had, came from Northern regions which also had more R1a from Iranian, Turkic and Mongol people. So its fairly safe to assume that E-V13 was present, at least as a small minority, in most Iranian people from the Iron Age on.

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  3. #22
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    Got the full results back. Seems like they put me in the same clade as the Italian? My clade is more basal than the two Greeks and Romanian. They formed their own subclade. I was thinking I would be in the same subclade as the Romanian. This would make my other closest relative the Azerbaijani?


    https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-S7461/

    My sample is the MD Riscani.
    Last edited by Scythoslav; 07-28-2021 at 12:47 AM.

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     JoeyP37 (07-28-2021)

  5. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scythoslav View Post
    Got the full results back. Seems like they put me in the same clade as the Italian? My clade is more basal than the two Greeks and Romanian. They formed their own subclade. I was thinking I would be in the same subclade as the Romanian. This would make my other closest relative the Azerbaijani?
    Assuming you stay at E-Y150909* when the update is complete, you are actually equally related to everyone in E-Y150909. To be "basal" is really just to be lacking clademates; if the Romanian didn't have they Greeks, they'd be basal too etc. Everyone in E-Y150909 is equally descendant from your shared MRCA, some just have more recent common ancestors with samples on the tree than others. No one is more "basal" than anyone else.
     
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  7. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by leorcooper19 View Post
    Assuming you stay at E-Y150909* when the update is complete, you are actually equally related to everyone in E-Y150909. To be "basal" is really just to be lacking clademates; if the Romanian didn't have they Greeks, they'd be basal too etc. Everyone in E-Y150909 is equally descendant from your shared MRCA, some just have more recent common ancestors with samples on the tree than others. No one is more "basal" than anyone else.
    Yep, essentially having an asterisk above your terminal subclade means:

    1. You are negative for all known downstream subclade defining SNPs
    2. You don't share any of your private SNPs (SNPs that haven't been added to the Ytree yet) with other YFull customers.

    As somebody who has been in this situation since 2019 (belonging to R-Y33*), I can say that it doesn't imply any special 'basalness' or antiquity of your subclade. Just one of or both of the following facts:

    1. It's a relatively rare subclade in terms of demographic distribution

    2. It's most common in regions where genealogical DNA testing is rare, mostly due to economic reasons, so it isn't properly represented. For example, people of Northwest-European descent (particularly from the British Isles) are overrepresented on genealogical DNA testing services like FTDNA/YFull due to its popularity in the US (where a huge chunk of the population is at least of partial 'British' descent). The opposite is true for South-Asia, Africa, Eastern Europe.
    Last edited by altvred; 07-28-2021 at 03:52 AM.
    YDNA (P): R-Y33
    YDNA (P, maternal line): R-Y20756
    YDNA(M): E-Y6938

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  9. #25
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    Congrats on your result. E-Y150909a has two Greeks, I suspect these two are related to each other. Also a Bulgarian from Pella certainly closely clusters with these Greeks and Romanian, so I don't think this clade is Greek, even though I sued to when the Greek result first appeared. I believe Bulgarian has also ordered the BigY.

    You don't seem to be related to them atm, so I guess you are of Getae origin. As it was pointed out upstream E-FGC44169* was found in a Moldovan Scythian in addition to R-Z2106, but these people were autosomally not Scythian,, similar to various other "Scythians" ranging from Hungary to Ukraine, who were mostly pre-Scythian locals as well. Moldovan Scythians show a significant degree of autosomal overlap with the female Early Iron Age MJ12 sample which belonged to the Babadag culture. As we know that all three Pshenichevo culture finds are V13 and that these were closely related obviously V13 clades have an old presence in the area.

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     Scythoslav (07-29-2021)

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huban View Post
    Congrats on your result. E-Y150909a has two Greeks, I suspect these two are related to each other. Also a Bulgarian from Pella certainly closely clusters with these Greeks and Romanian, so I don't think this clade is Greek, even though I sued to when the Greek result first appeared. I believe Bulgarian has also ordered the BigY.

    You don't seem to be related to them atm, so I guess you are of Getae origin. As it was pointed out upstream E-FGC44169* was found in a Moldovan Scythian in addition to R-Z2106, but these people were autosomally not Scythian,, similar to various other "Scythians" ranging from Hungary to Ukraine, who were mostly pre-Scythian locals as well. Moldovan Scythians show a significant degree of autosomal overlap with the female Early Iron Age MJ12 sample which belonged to the Babadag culture. As we know that all three Pshenichevo culture finds are V13 and that these were closely related obviously V13 clades have an old presence in the area.
    If my line is of actual Daco-Getae origin I will be very happy. I spent my childhood reading about Dacians lol. We will see. It just sucks that testing is not very widespread in Moldova.

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     Huban (07-30-2021)

  13. #27
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    It also says I have 36 novel SNPs. Is that higher than usual?

  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scythoslav View Post
    If my line is of actual Daco-Getae origin I will be very happy. I spent my childhood reading about Dacians lol. We will see. It just sucks that testing is not very widespread in Moldova.
    It looks that way from the current data. Your result is the first E-S7461 tested from Moldova. Of other Moldovans at FTDNA there are E-Y160090 and E-Z16988* under Z5017 who both should be of similar Daco-Getae origin, first clusters with Ruthenians, Hungarians, Ukrainians, while the second doesn't have anyone closer than about 2800 years. Under Z5018 there is one E-A2192, and E-Z5018* (probably under E-Y145455). None of these have BigY/NGS, two have SNP packs.

    Under E-BY183690>S24513 distant to the Irish there is one Romanian from Romanian Moldova around 3000 years away from a Western Ukrainian, but neither has uploaded to YFull. This clade also looks Getic. That E-A2192 on the other hand probably migrated from Bulgaria in Medieval as he has close matches there.

    The sample from Romania/Moldova is very sub-par but it has been increasing recently.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scythoslav View Post
    It also says I have 36 novel SNPs. Is that higher than usual?
    It is higher, though not all those SNPs will enter the age calculation. Its a confirmation of the YFull's live tree, where you stayed E-Y150909* while this Romanian shares 15 SNP's with Greeks which should mean their TMRCA is in 1000-1500 year range. I am curious how will Bulgarian fit in E-FT76098, he is clearly related to the Greek.
    Last edited by Huban; 07-30-2021 at 02:04 AM.

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  16. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huban View Post
    Congrats on your result. E-Y150909a has two Greeks, I suspect these two are related to each other. Also a Bulgarian from Pella certainly closely clusters with these Greeks and Romanian, so I don't think this clade is Greek, even though I sued to when the Greek result first appeared. I believe Bulgarian has also ordered the BigY.

    You don't seem to be related to them atm, so I guess you are of Getae origin. As it was pointed out upstream E-FGC44169* was found in a Moldovan Scythian in addition to R-Z2106, but these people were autosomally not Scythian,, similar to various other "Scythians" ranging from Hungary to Ukraine, who were mostly pre-Scythian locals as well. Moldovan Scythians show a significant degree of autosomal overlap with the female Early Iron Age MJ12 sample which belonged to the Babadag culture. As we know that all three Pshenichevo culture finds are V13 and that these were closely related obviously V13 clades have an old presence in the area.
    If you speak about the two Greeks on Yfull then that's the same person who just upgraded from Big 500 to 700. The Bulgarian is in our project and I haven't been notified he purchased Big Y so probably hasn't ordered it although he did say will order in future.
    As it seems now, quite many S7461 in Romania, Moldova and Bulgaria who happen to have close matches in Macedonia and Peloponnese. As you said, it rather looks like the later are migrants from further north so no ancient Greek branch as of yet.
    Even these two 'Greeks' in this branch, as I happened to read a post from the uploader of these kits on Yfull's FB page, are of Slavic speaking background, both closely related to the uploader and one of them is clustering with a Bulgarian.

    And I remember you happened to argue a lot about some Doric origins but it won't happened. Not because I disliked something as you said back than but it was obvious to me from multiple sources that E-V13 in Greece is mostly of Vlach, Albanian and Slavic origin.

    Most of the Greek branches on Yfull clearly show that. Another Arcadian with Medieval matches from the Balkans. Clearly some migration to there. Probably Vlachs as I see some toponyms such as Vlachokerasia down there. I wasn't aware the Vlachs made it that far south but since that Kolokotronis I1 guy happened to have an close Aromanian match from Albania, it seems the Vlach contribution to Greece is significant even in Peloponnese.

    Funny enough, I remember you advocated for Doric Greek origin of this Laconian Greek clade. Well this Laconian just happened to have a very close match on the tree who hasn't put details as of yet. Would be interesting to see where the sample in question comes from but for me it's clear E-V13 in Greece are mostly migrants.
    Target: Aspar_scaled
    Distance: 1.9646% / 0.01964602 | ADC: 1x RC
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  18. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspar View Post
    Funny enough, I remember you advocated for Doric Greek origin of this Laconian Greek clade. Well this Laconian just happened to have a very close match on the tree who hasn't put details as of yet. Would be interesting to see where the sample in question comes from but for me it's clear E-V13 in Greece are mostly migrants.

    And how do you explain the Sardinian who is E-S2978* ?
    Last edited by Bane; 07-30-2021 at 09:26 PM.

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