Results 1 to 4 of 4

Thread: Who are Ottoman Turks MA2195 and MA2196 respectively?

  1. #1
    Banned
    Posts
    223
    Sex
    Location
    Altai-Sayan

    Question Who are Ottoman Turks MA2195 and MA2196 respectively?

    Target: TUR_Ottoman:MA2195
    Distance: 1.3968% / 0.01396793 | R3P
    60.0 Nogai
    21.0 RUS_Maykop
    19.0 RUS_Karasuk_o


    Target: TUR_Ottoman:MA2196
    Distance: 2.3136% / 0.02313619 | R3P
    44.8 Scythian_RUS_Urals
    41.4 AZE_Caucasus_lowlands_LN
    13.8 MNG_UUS001

    One appears to be mostly Siberian/East Asian with a fair amount of steppe. The other appears to be mostly Siberian/East Asian with steppe(buried in the Scythian?) as well as substantial Near Eastern ancestry. My question is which-if either-represents the original Oghuz Turks prior to their arrival in Anatolia? I would guess that the 2195 most closely resembles them for obvious reasons, however the Oghuz lived in Turkmenistan and interestingly both are quite distant from modern day Turkmens.
    Last edited by Cynic; 07-23-2021 at 11:31 PM.

  2. #2
    Registered Users
    Posts
    834
    Sex
    Nationality
    American

    United States of America Pakistan
    Quote Originally Posted by Cynic View Post
    Target: TUR_Ottoman:MA2195
    Distance: 1.3968% / 0.01396793 | R3P
    60.0 Nogai
    21.0 RUS_Maykop
    19.0 RUS_Karasuk_o


    Target: TUR_Ottoman:MA2196
    Distance: 2.3136% / 0.02313619 | R3P
    44.8 Scythian_RUS_Urals
    41.4 AZE_Caucasus_lowlands_LN
    13.8 MNG_UUS001

    One appears to be mostly Siberian/East Asian with a fair amount of steppe. The other appears to be mostly Siberian/East Asian with steppe(buried in the Scythian?) as well as substantial Near Eastern ancestry. My question is which-if either-represents the original Oghuz Turks prior to their arrival in Anatolia? I would guess that the 2195 most closely resembles them for obvious reasons, however the Oghuz lived in Turkmenistan and interestingly both are quite distant from modern day Turkmens.
    They are from Central Anatolia 1400-1600 CE Ottoman Period:
    S1.5.1 Kaman-Kalehöyük excavations (Kaman, Kırşehir, Turkey)
    *Director: Dr. Sachihiro Omura, Japanese Institute of Anatolian Archaeology, Çağırkan, Kaman,
    Kırşehir, Turkey
    The archaeological site of Kaman-Kalehöyük is situated in the Kızılırmak river basin in Central
    Anatolia. The main mound measures 280 m in diameter and is 16 m high.
    The stratigraphy of the site can be divided into four major sections and several substrata:
    1) Stratum I Ottoman/Islamic and Byzantine periods (1400–1600 CE)
    Stratum Ia 1–3: Ottoman Period
    Stratum Ib 4–5: Byzantine Period

    Context Stratum Ia (Ottoman Samples)
    MA2195 (FEY1): HS 12-01, 12 07 24, South, Sector L Female, 35–45, Ottoman Ia
    MA2196 (FEY2): HS 08-07, 08 07 17, North, Sector XXXV, Grid XLIX-48 (99), Provisional
    Layer 3 Juvenile, 7–8, Ottoman Ia

    Page 7:
    https://science.sciencemag.org/conte...amgaard_SM.pdf
    Relavent archeology:
    https://zenodo.org/record/1240516#.YPtUby1h2w5
     

    distance: 2.13
    sample: Kapisa (Kapisa)
    CG IVCp • IRN Shahr I Sokhta BA2 I8728: 42.5
    Dzharkutan1 BA • Average: 37.5
    Srubnaya Alakul MLBA • Average: 17
    Chokhopani 2700BP • Average: 3

    sample: Kapisa:Kapisa-Dad
    distance: 2.0944
    Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2 • I8728: 41.5
    Bustan_BA • Average: 37
    Srubnaya_Alakul_MLBA • Average: 19
    Chokhopani_2700BP • Average: 2.5

  3. #3
    Registered Users
    Posts
    313
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Turkish
    Y-DNA (P)
    N-P43

    Turkey Great Seljuk Empire Cappadocian Kingdom
    They are dated to the Ottoman period (1400-1600 AD) according to the paper, but the samples aren't radiocarbon-dated. They might be from the Seljuk (or beyliks) period as well.


    They aren't mostly Siberian/East Asian. MA2195 has 46-47% Slab Grave-like East Eurasian ancestry and falls within the cluster of the medieval Turkic samples from Kazakhstan. MA2196 on the other hand has 22-23% EA ancestry and seems to be partially of West Asian origin.


    Last edited by Alkaevli; 07-27-2021 at 11:36 AM.
    Turkish DNA Project

    Hidden Content
    Hidden Content

  4. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to Alkaevli For This Useful Post:

     Caspian (07-27-2021),  CopperAxe (07-26-2021),  drobbah (07-27-2021),  Kanenas (07-27-2021),  Kapisa (07-27-2021),  parasar (07-26-2021),  Reza (07-26-2021),  Sangarius (07-27-2021),  Toguz (07-30-2021),  Tsakhur (09-13-2021)

  5. #4
    Banned
    Posts
    223
    Sex
    Location
    Altai-Sayan

    Quote Originally Posted by Alkaevli View Post
    They are dated to the Ottoman period (1400-1600 AD) according to the paper, but the samples aren't radiocarbon-dated. They might be from the Seljuk (or beyliks) period as well.


    They aren't mostly Siberian/East Asian. MA2195 has ~47% East Eurasian ancestry and falls within the cluster of the medieval Turkic samples from Kazakhstan. MA2196 on the other hand has 22-23% EA ancestry and seems to be partially of West Asian origin.


    Ancient Siberian ancestry is heavily West Eurasian in the form of WSHG and both proto-Turkics and modern south-central Siberians are a mix of ancient Siberian hunter gatherer ancestry and east asian ancestry, so I am aware they are not mostly East Eurasian in the strictest sense. That's why I said Siberian/East Asian.

    However, it seems that assertion was still wrong because they don't really have that much Siberian Hunter gatherer ancestry. It almost all seems to be attached to Indo-European steppe ancestry because when Sintashta is introduced into the model, most aren't really scoring much WSHG. They all score a lot of BMAC/Iran_N. Some are even scoring quite a bit of excess ANF too. So I guess a more accurate portrayal would be "majority steppe MLBA+East Eurasian(Slab grave)"

    Target: KAZ_KipchakA179
    Distance: 4.5826% / 0.04582564
    32.2 TKM_Gonur1_BA
    27.6 MNG_Slab_Grave_EIA_1
    23.6 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
    16.6 TUR_Barcin_N

    Target: KAZ_KimakA87
    Distance: 3.8825% / 0.03882518
    41.2 MNG_Slab_Grave_EIA_1
    24.0 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
    20.0 TKM_Gonur1_BA
    11.2 RUS_Tyumen_HG
    3.6 TUR_Barcin_N

    Target: KAZ_KarlukA230
    Distance: 3.8222% / 0.03822237
    44.8 MNG_Slab_Grave_EIA_1
    28.8 TKM_Gonur1_BA
    22.4 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
    4.0 TUR_Barcin_N

    Target: KAZ_KarlukA222
    Distance: 2.1515% / 0.02151464
    47.2 MNG_Slab_Grave_EIA_1
    27.2 TKM_Gonur1_BA
    20.0 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
    4.8 TUR_Barcin_N
    0.8 RUS_Tyumen_HG

    Target: KAZ_KarakhanidA205
    Distance: 2.6448% / 0.02644794
    54.2 MNG_Slab_Grave_EIA_1
    22.0 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
    21.0 TKM_Gonur1_BA
    2.0 TUR_Barcin_N
    0.8 RUS_Tyumen_HG

    Target: KAZ_KarakhanidA204
    Distance: 2.3368% / 0.02336788
    44.0 MNG_Slab_Grave_EIA_1
    22.2 TKM_Gonur1_BA
    15.0 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
    12.0 RUS_Tyumen_HG
    6.8 TUR_Barcin_N

    Target: KAZ_KarakhanidA203
    Distance: 3.2019% / 0.03201858
    47.8 MNG_Slab_Grave_EIA_1
    24.4 TKM_Gonur1_BA
    16.2 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
    7.2 TUR_Barcin_N
    4.4 RUS_Tyumen_HG

    Target: TUR_Ottoman:MA2195
    Distance: 2.4167% / 0.02416701
    44.2 MNG_Slab_Grave_EIA_1
    16.8 TKM_Gonur1_BA
    16.4 TUR_Barcin_N
    13.6 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
    9.0 RUS_Tyumen_HG
    Last edited by Cynic; 07-27-2021 at 01:51 AM.

Similar Threads

  1. How are Turks and Jews related?
    By Liquid in forum Turkish
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 07-13-2021, 06:52 PM
  2. Study - Ottoman Frontier Genetics
    By RickW85 in forum Autosomal (auDNA)
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 05-20-2020, 03:33 AM
  3. Autosomal DNA of Bulgarian Turks
    By Alkaevli in forum Turkish
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11-03-2018, 07:31 PM
  4. Are Turks Armenians under the hood?
    By firemonkey in forum Autosomal (auDNA)
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 03-22-2018, 01:46 AM
  5. Arab tribes of the Ottoman Diyarbekir province
    By raspberry in forum History (Modern)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-05-2017, 09:35 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •