Page 1 of 9 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 82

Thread: East Med/West Asia and european scores.

  1. #1
    Registered Users
    Posts
    102
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Levantine European
    Y-DNA (P)
    R
    mtDNA (M)
    K2A
    Y-DNA (M)
    JM92

    Israel United States of America

    East Med/West Asia and european scores.

    What does the East Med and West Asian for Eurogenes represent? Is this an old proxy, ie east med being levantine farmer, and west asian being CHG or kura arexes (chg with a bit of iran component)

    Why do so many Europeans score some west asian and east med on eurogene components, and what time period was this brought into europe? I understand that of course middle easterners score high in West Asian and East Med and depending which north and south they are, (assyrians versus jordanians) there will be a level of Red Sea. But what exactly do these populations represent? It seems the old references for K13 have been thrown out except for the excel sheets. But the highest east med score is around half of leb. druze and yemenite jews. So what would a 100 percent east med person be comprised of and 100 percent west asian person be comprised of, which ancient populations?

    Thanks.

    My K13 breakdown, I am half ashkenazi and half northwest european. I understand my east med and west asia could be recent, within the last 2000 years. But why are albanians, bulgarians, romanians also scoring east med and west asian and where does it come from for them?




    Population
    North_Atlantic 29.41 Pct
    Baltic 16.59 Pct
    West_Med 17.17 Pct
    West_Asian 10.77 Pct
    East_Med 17.09 Pct
    Red_Sea 5.24 Pct
    South_Asian 1.41 Pct
    East_Asian 1.27 Pct
    Siberian -
    Amerindian -
    Oceanian -
    Northeast_African 0.76 Pct
    Sub-Saharan 0.3 Pct

  2. #2
    Banned
    Posts
    223
    Sex
    Location
    Altai-Sayan

    East Med=Levantine-related
    West Asian=Gedrosian like
    West Med=ANF/European Med
    Red Sea=Arabian/SW Asian

  3. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Cynic For This Useful Post:

     Aben Aboo (07-28-2021),  Cascio (07-28-2021)

  4. #3
    Registered Users
    Posts
    102
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Levantine European
    Y-DNA (P)
    R
    mtDNA (M)
    K2A
    Y-DNA (M)
    JM92

    Israel United States of America
    Thanks. For the West Asian, Georgians also score high in this yeah? Would it be caucasus related as well, or a midpoint between caucasus and gedrosia? And where does this levantine-like and gedrosian-like DNA get in certain populations like Romanians, North Italians, etc in small amounts. When did it come to reach this countries

  5. #4
    Banned
    Posts
    223
    Sex
    Location
    Altai-Sayan

    Quote Originally Posted by Levantine_Viking View Post
    Thanks. For the West Asian, Georgians also score high in this yeah? Would it be caucasus related as well, or a midpoint between caucasus and gedrosia? And where does this levantine-like and gedrosian-like DNA get in certain populations like Romanians, North Italians, etc in small amounts. When did it come to reach this countries
    Yes it should be high in Georgians, Chechens, Kurds, Persians, Pashtuns, and Baloch. It is Iran_N and CHG related.

    For Romanians it would just be CHG related because we know that type of admixture exists in the Balkans. North Italy, I’m not entirely sure. You might have to ask someone else.

  6. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Cynic For This Useful Post:

     Aben Aboo (07-28-2021),  Levantine_Viking (07-28-2021)

  7. #5
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    555
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-Y33
    mtDNA (M)
    J1c2
    Y-DNA (M)
    E-Y6938
    mtDNA (P)
    G2a

    Russian Federation Russia Tatarstan Arms Russia Mordovia Timurid
    Quote Originally Posted by Levantine_Viking View Post
    Thanks. For the West Asian, Georgians also score high in this yeah? Would it be caucasus related as well, or a midpoint between caucasus and gedrosia? And where does this levantine-like and gedrosian-like DNA get in certain populations like Romanians, North Italians, etc in small amounts. When did it come to reach this countries
    Yes, West-Asian peaks among South-Central Caucasian populations like Georgians and decrease the further South or North you go where you have 'Levantine/East-Med' and 'Steppe' admixture respectively. Keep in mind that the components used in the old admixture calculators like Eurogenes/Dodecad are outdated if not obsolete for the most part. For example they cannot discren the difference between CHG and Iran_N ancestry, which is very crucial in understanding the difference between South-Central Asian populations like Balochs, for example, and peoples from the Caucuses.

    Sample West Asian South Asian Baltic Sub-Saharan Siberian Oceanian East Med Northeast African Red Sea West Med East Asian North Atlantic Amerindian
    Russia MLBA Sintashta ► I1086 14.97 1.39 35.8 0.85 1.76 0.68 0 0 0 4.23 0 38.4 1.91
    Corded Ware Germany ► I1542 20.87 0 38.47 1.11 3.58 1.11 0 0 1.91 0 0 32.95 0
    Russia EBA Yamnaya Samara ► I0441 25.07 6.79 34.49 0 0 0.09 0 0 0 0 0 28.09 5.47
    Armenian ► arm11 41.98 0 1.41 0.01 0 1.24 40.1 0.17 1.15 13.46 0.29 0 0.2
    Armenian ► armenia162 42.21 1.08 0 0.23 0 0.13 38.04 0 6.06 11.82 0 0.44 0
    Tabasaran ► tabassaran5-1m 46.01 5.95 16.17 0 0 0.21 14.1 0 0.54 0 0 14.35 2.68
    Chechen ► ch55 55.26 2.03 20.98 0 2.01 0.12 1.63 0 4.02 2.62 0.39 8.82 2.12
    Balochi ► HGDP00058 59.13 36.24 1.48 0.32 0.61 0.14 0 0.31 0.93 0 0 0 0.83
    Balkar ► bal124 61.04 0 15.76 0.04 2.02 0.34 3.15 0 0 12.41 2.98 1.22 1.05
    Ossetian North ► NorthOssetia13 66.18 0 12.33 0.85 4.09 0.49 0.01 0.3 1.58 10.46 2.8 0.01 0.97
    Abkhasian ► abh45 68.91 0 3.39 0 0.64 1.42 8.36 0 1.46 15.02 0.61 0 0.18
    Turkmenistan C Geoksyur ► I12483 72.46 23.76 0 0 0 0 2.36 0 0 0 0 0 1.42
    Iran GanjDareh N ► I1944 72.98 24.23 0 1.1 0 0 1.09 0.6 0 0 0 0 0
    Georgian ► mg43 80.44 0 0 0.07 0 0.77 5 0.83 0 10.66 0.96 1.28 0
    Georgian ► mg27 81.69 0 0 0 0 0.78 6.35 0.43 1.09 8.92 0.75 0 0
    Georgia Kotias ► KK1.SG 85.26 6.86 4.26 2.16 1.09 0.38 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
    YDNA (P): R-Y33
    YDNA (P, maternal line): R-Y20756
    YDNA(M): E-Y6938

  8. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to altvred For This Useful Post:

     Aben Aboo (07-28-2021),  jstephan (07-28-2021),  Levantine_Viking (07-28-2021),  Mrtni (07-28-2021)

  9. #6
    Registered Users
    Posts
    102
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Levantine European
    Y-DNA (P)
    R
    mtDNA (M)
    K2A
    Y-DNA (M)
    JM92

    Israel United States of America
    Quote Originally Posted by altvred View Post
    Yes, West-Asian peaks among South-Central Caucasian populations like Georgians and decrease the further South or North you go where you have 'Levantine/East-Med' and 'Steppe' admixture respectively. Keep in mind that the components used in the old admixture calculators like Eurogenes/Dodecad are outdated if not obsolete for the most part. For example they cannot discren the difference between CHG and Iran_N ancestry, which is very crucial in understanding the difference between South-Central Asian populations like Balochs, for example, and peoples from the Caucuses.

    Sample West Asian South Asian Baltic Sub-Saharan Siberian Oceanian East Med Northeast African Red Sea West Med East Asian North Atlantic Amerindian
    Russia MLBA Sintashta ► I1086 14.97 1.39 35.8 0.85 1.76 0.68 0 0 0 4.23 0 38.4 1.91
    Corded Ware Germany ► I1542 20.87 0 38.47 1.11 3.58 1.11 0 0 1.91 0 0 32.95 0
    Russia EBA Yamnaya Samara ► I0441 25.07 6.79 34.49 0 0 0.09 0 0 0 0 0 28.09 5.47
    Armenian ► arm11 41.98 0 1.41 0.01 0 1.24 40.1 0.17 1.15 13.46 0.29 0 0.2
    Armenian ► armenia162 42.21 1.08 0 0.23 0 0.13 38.04 0 6.06 11.82 0 0.44 0
    Tabasaran ► tabassaran5-1m 46.01 5.95 16.17 0 0 0.21 14.1 0 0.54 0 0 14.35 2.68
    Chechen ► ch55 55.26 2.03 20.98 0 2.01 0.12 1.63 0 4.02 2.62 0.39 8.82 2.12
    Balochi ► HGDP00058 59.13 36.24 1.48 0.32 0.61 0.14 0 0.31 0.93 0 0 0 0.83
    Balkar ► bal124 61.04 0 15.76 0.04 2.02 0.34 3.15 0 0 12.41 2.98 1.22 1.05
    Ossetian North ► NorthOssetia13 66.18 0 12.33 0.85 4.09 0.49 0.01 0.3 1.58 10.46 2.8 0.01 0.97
    Abkhasian ► abh45 68.91 0 3.39 0 0.64 1.42 8.36 0 1.46 15.02 0.61 0 0.18
    Turkmenistan C Geoksyur ► I12483 72.46 23.76 0 0 0 0 2.36 0 0 0 0 0 1.42
    Iran GanjDareh N ► I1944 72.98 24.23 0 1.1 0 0 1.09 0.6 0 0 0 0 0
    Georgian ► mg43 80.44 0 0 0.07 0 0.77 5 0.83 0 10.66 0.96 1.28 0
    Georgian ► mg27 81.69 0 0 0 0 0.78 6.35 0.43 1.09 8.92 0.75 0 0
    Georgia Kotias ► KK1.SG 85.26 6.86 4.26 2.16 1.09 0.38 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
    What calculators on gedmatch or yourdnaportal differenciate between the baloch and the caucasus? I noticed docedad, harappa, way overestimate the caucasus populations especially in levantine individuals.

    For someone with my results, where do you think this component "plots" - respectively as a whole? Syria?
    West_Asian 10.77 Pct
    East_Med 17.09 Pct
    Red_Sea 5.24 Pct

    ---are they related or are they seperate? For my K13.

    Also, the docedad calcs overestimate the caucasus especially for levantine individuals so I do not use that. I think the K47 can be of good information, or maybe Tolan k25?

  10. #7
    Registered Users
    Posts
    274

    Quote Originally Posted by altvred View Post
    Yes, West-Asian peaks among South-Central Caucasian populations like Georgians and decrease the further South or North you go where you have 'Levantine/East-Med' and 'Steppe' admixture respectively. Keep in mind that the components used in the old admixture calculators like Eurogenes/Dodecad are outdated if not obsolete for the most part. For example they cannot discren the difference between CHG and Iran_N ancestry, which is very crucial in understanding the difference between South-Central Asian populations like Balochs, for example, and peoples from the Caucuses.
    ...
    If the relevant components are outdated on Eurogenes and Dodecad, which admixture calculators would you recommend for Europeans and West Asians/Caucasians ?

  11. #8
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    555
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-Y33
    mtDNA (M)
    J1c2
    Y-DNA (M)
    E-Y6938
    mtDNA (P)
    G2a

    Russian Federation Russia Tatarstan Arms Russia Mordovia Timurid
    Quote Originally Posted by Levantine_Viking View Post
    What calculators on gedmatch or yourdnaportal differenciate between the baloch and the caucasus? I noticed docedad, harappa, way overestimate the caucasus populations especially in levantine individuals.

    For someone with my results, where do you think this component "plots" - respectively as a whole? Syria?
    West_Asian 10.77 Pct
    East_Med 17.09 Pct
    Red_Sea 5.24 Pct

    ---are they related or are they seperate? For my K13.

    Also, the docedad calcs overestimate the caucasus especially for levantine individuals so I do not use that. I think the K47 can be of good information, or maybe Tolan k25?
    Can't say I'm familiar with any calculator beyond HW/Eurogenes, broadly speaking they all seem to share the same disadvantages such as the inability to tell apart Gedrosian/Iran_N and CHG/Caucasian ancestry and some more fundamental flaws in the underlying concept (Read more: HERE). There are far more superior tools like G25 but unfortunately, the guy doing them isn't accepting any new orders.


    Here's a very rough attempt at modeling Caucasian, Levantine, and South Asian populations using G25 which has no trouble separating the 'Gedrosian' (BMAC ancestry present in all Central and South Asians, represented by individuals from the Bronze Age BMAC site in Dzhakurtan, Uzbekistan here) and Caucasian/Maykop component present in Georgians or Chechens.

    Sample Fit Levant Beirut IAIII Dzharkutan1 BA Srubnaya Alakul MLBA CG IVCp Maykop Novosvobodnaya Slab Grave EIA 1 Dinka
    Lebanese6AQ115 (Lebanese Christian) 2.12 95 3 2 0 0 0 0
    Lebanese11AS14 (Lebanese Muslim) 2.14 88.5 3.5 7.5 0 0 0 0.5
    Lebanese10AQ127 (Lebanese Muslim) 1.81 88 5 2.5 1.5 0 1 2
    18TD13 (Lebanese Christian Greek Orthodox) 1.53 86 12 1 0 0.5 0 0.5
    Average (Georgian Laz) 1.84 29.5 0 0.5 0 70 0 0
    GEO51 georgian imer (Georgian Imer) 2.87 12.5 0 0 0 87.5 0 0
    HGDP00072 (Balochi) 2.11 8.5 37.5 17.5 35 0 0 1.5
    HGDP00066 (Balochi) 2.91 6 47.5 17 28.5 0 0.5 0.5
    HGDP00228 (Pashtun) 1.24 5 12.5 24.5 54 0.5 3.5 0
    071 R02C02 (Chechen) 2.55 0 0 25 0 68.5 6.5 0


    Quote Originally Posted by lacreme View Post
    If the relevant components are outdated on Eurogenes and Dodecad, which admixture calculators would you recommend for Europeans and West Asians/Caucasians ?
    Under usual circumstances, I'd recommend getting G25 coordinates but Davidski isn't accepting any new orders currently.
    Last edited by altvred; 07-28-2021 at 08:36 AM.
    YDNA (P): R-Y33
    YDNA (P, maternal line): R-Y20756
    YDNA(M): E-Y6938

  12. #9
    Registered Users
    Posts
    102
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Levantine European
    Y-DNA (P)
    R
    mtDNA (M)
    K2A
    Y-DNA (M)
    JM92

    Israel United States of America
    Quote Originally Posted by altvred View Post
    Can't say I'm familiar with any calculator beyond HW/Eurogenes, broadly speaking they all seem to share the same disadvantages such as the inability to tell apart Gedrosian/Iran_N and CHG/Caucasian ancestry and some more fundamental flaws in the underlying concept (Read more: HERE). There are far more superior tools like G25 but unfortunately, the guy doing them isn't accepting any new orders.


    Here's a very rough attempt at modeling Caucasian, Levantine, and South Asian populations using G25 which has no trouble separating the 'Gedrosian' (BMAC ancestry present in all Central and South Asians, represented by individuals from the Bronze Age BMAC site in Dzhakurtan, Uzbekistan here) and Caucasian/Maykop component present in Georgians or Chechens.

    Sample Fit Levant Beirut IAIII Dzharkutan1 BA Srubnaya Alakul MLBA CG IVCp Maykop Novosvobodnaya Slab Grave EIA 1 Dinka
    Lebanese6AQ115 (Lebanese Christian) 2.12 95 3 2 0 0 0 0
    Lebanese11AS14 (Lebanese Muslim) 2.14 88.5 3.5 7.5 0 0 0 0.5
    Lebanese10AQ127 (Lebanese Muslim) 1.81 88 5 2.5 1.5 0 1 2
    18TD13 (Lebanese Christian Greek Orthodox) 1.53 86 12 1 0 0.5 0 0.5
    Average (Georgian Laz) 1.84 29.5 0 0.5 0 70 0 0
    GEO51 georgian imer (Georgian Imer) 2.87 12.5 0 0 0 87.5 0 0
    HGDP00072 (Balochi) 2.11 8.5 37.5 17.5 35 0 0 1.5
    HGDP00066 (Balochi) 2.91 6 47.5 17 28.5 0 0.5 0.5
    HGDP00228 (Pashtun) 1.24 5 12.5 24.5 54 0.5 3.5 0
    071 R02C02 (Chechen) 2.55 0 0 25 0 68.5 6.5 0




    Under usual circumstances, I'd recommend getting G25 coordinates but Davidski isn't accepting any new orders currently.
    I have G25, you can get it from illustrative dna. the problem for me is that I am so mixed, my mom is ashkenazi and my father northwest Europe - so anything italic or greece messes with my results (lowers my levantine and my northwest europe, and none of it makes any sense at all) That is why I was asking for K13 because they seem like pretty homogenous populations.

  13. #10
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    555
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-Y33
    mtDNA (M)
    J1c2
    Y-DNA (M)
    E-Y6938
    mtDNA (P)
    G2a

    Russian Federation Russia Tatarstan Arms Russia Mordovia Timurid
    Quote Originally Posted by Levantine_Viking View Post
    I have G25, you can get it from illustrative dna. the problem for me is that I am so mixed, my mom is ashkenazi and my father northwest Europe - so anything italic or greece messes with my results (lowers my levantine and my northwest europe, and none of it makes any sense at all) That is why I was asking for K13 because they seem like pretty homogenous populations.
    What kind of results do you exactly expect to get? I'm one-quarter Ashkenazi and on G25 of that 25%, I score around 60%+ Levantine, and the rest being something Italian/Roman/Aegean - which IMHO doesn't seem to be too far from reality concerning Ashkenazi Jewish genetic history.



    Sample Fit Avar Szolad Av2 Levant Beirut IAIII Average KAZ Kipchak Average Ardea Latini IA Average
    AlexT 1.90 67.5 17.5 10.5 4.5


    Sample Fit Avar Szolad Sarmatian RUS Urals Levant Megiddo MLBA GRC Mycenaean
    AlexT 2.41 61 18 13 8
    YDNA (P): R-Y33
    YDNA (P, maternal line): R-Y20756
    YDNA(M): E-Y6938

Page 1 of 9 123 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. East Med, West Asia, Red Sea, South Asia
    By Levantine_Viking in forum Autosomal (auDNA)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-20-2021, 06:20 AM
  2. East Asian vs European (North/East) bottleneck
    By thejkhan in forum General
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 05-29-2021, 08:44 PM
  3. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 06-15-2020, 02:32 PM
  4. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 05-21-2020, 09:38 AM
  5. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-14-2016, 12:14 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •