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Thread: Rethinking near eastern (read: levantine) ancestry in Mainland Greeks

  1. #11
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    Never seen people use individual western farmers, and it does not seem useful for my purposes. X11.PNG
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    Last edited by darknorman11; 07-29-2021 at 10:43 AM.

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    Honestly all these recursive dilemmas are tempting me to go back to a Coonian worldview ��; much simpler times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by darknorman11 View Post
    Hello

    The West Asian admixture that modern Greeks have is usually of the Caucasian variety, Levantine as you say comes secondary, if at all. We have posted about this on the Greek discussion thread extensively if you bother to wade through the pages.
    dosas: 56.25% Greek_Macedonia + 43.75% Greek_Trabzon @ 1.769
    wife: 50% English + 50% Irish @ 1.837
    kid1: 56.25% English + 43.75% Greek_Cappadocia @ 1.817
    kid2: 56.25% English_Cornwall + 43.75% Greek_Cappadocia @ 1.866

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    I believe the Devil’s Gate samples have a low number of SNPs correct? Somewhere around the ball park of 19K. The appearance of Devil’s Gate admixture in Catacomb is noise level in your G25, but still, as far as I know there is no ANE in Devil’s Gate, coupled together with common archaic/Neanderthal, Bacho Kiro IUP/Tianyuan ancestry, and a low SNP count, that probably explains the result no? As far as I’m aware and based on all the runs I’ve seen, there is no East Asian admixture in Catacomb, which is basically a continuation of Yamnaya/Afanasievo.
    Last edited by Jack Johnson; 07-30-2021 at 06:06 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Johnson View Post
    I believe the Devilís Gate samples have a low number of SNPs correct? Somewhere around the ball park of 19K. The appearance of Devilís Gate admixture in Catacomb is noise level in your G25, but still, as far as I know there is no ANE in Devilís Gate, coupled together with common archaic/Neanderthal, Bacho Kiro IUP/Tianyuan ancestry, and a low SNP count, that probably explains the result no? As far as Iím aware and based on all the runs Iíve seen, there is no East Asian admixture in Catacomb, which is basically a continuation of Yamnaya/Afanasievo.
    Some Devil's Gate samples are of high quality, NEO236 and NEO240 for example have coverage for nearly all SNPs in the 1240k dataset (over a million).
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    I’m behind then thanks, last I read about Devils Gate was in January. Still is definitely noise though, maybe something related to the Bacho Kiro/Tianyuan side of ANE, or Neanderthal?

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    I mean its just a PCA right, so yeah I agree with "noise". Interestingly vonyuchka_en, progress_en, and Romania_BA (ROU_BA) get substantial Iran_N ancestry; but as David showed for the first 2 via qpgraph; there is none. I recently kept spamming ancient crown eurasians and tried to see how much Ganj Dareh I could remove last night, was interesting.

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    The neanderthal aspect is interesting too and I agree; I think we have a long way to come before reaching a coherent model.
    Last edited by darknorman11; 07-31-2021 at 05:14 AM.

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    I concur with most of the comments here but I am really puzzled by the Slavic admixture in Greeks. When did it actually show up? Iíve struggled to model them as a mix of Serbian, Mycenaean, and Turkey Alalakh because Serbian almost always ends up being the dominant component. Iím probably missing something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cynic View Post
    I concur with most of the comments here but I am really puzzled by the Slavic admixture in Greeks. When did it actually show up? Iíve struggled to model them as a mix of Serbian, Mycenaean, and Turkey Alalakh because Serbian almost always ends up being the dominant component. Iím probably missing something.
    Well for starters, Serbs, and South Slavs in general, are simultaneously the descendants of Slavic tribes that migrated into the Balkans and the pre-Slavic indigenous population that they assimilated. The proportions of "Slavic"/Balkan ancestry varies among South Slavs but Serbs fall somewhere around the 50/50 mark, with the Balkan element being slightly higher.

     



     



     


    So when using them as a proxy, the model will try to overcompensate for the Slavic component while the non-Slavic/Balkan half will eat into whatever you're using as a source for Aegean/Greek ancestry.

    There's plenty of aDNA samples like Avar_Szolad (Av2) and Krakauer_Berg that should be used instead as proxies.

    Slavic admixture peaks in the North of Greece unsurprisingly, and there's less of it on the Greek islands.

    I found using Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2 (two Hellenic samples from Spain) + AV2_Szolad on qpAdm gives decent results for mainland Greeks; the model doesn't work well for Greek Islanders, though, since you need some additional West-Asian input.

     


     


     

     



     
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