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Thread: Rethinking near eastern (read: levantine) ancestry in Mainland Greeks

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    Rethinking near eastern (read: levantine) ancestry in Mainland Greeks

    Hello

    Mainland greek ---> macedonian and thessalian greeks

    Mainland greeks can be modelled with some near-eastern/levantine ancestry in G25 using their averages, however; when looking at individual samples, only 50-70% of mainlanders show levantine ancestry. 25-50% of mainland greek (thesally/macedonian) individuals show zero levantine ancestry . This means the standard narrative of mainland greece undergoing near-eastern migration and then getting slav'd to plot more northern is incoherent. If Levantine migrants made their way to mainland greece 1000-2000 years ago then virtually all of them would show this ancestry, like calabrians and laconians do, due to simple diffusion. This is not the case however; which makes me think one of two things.


    1. Mainland greeks never got levantine ancestry, and the signal that shows up in modern mainland greeks (some samples) is due to recent intermixture with islanders and population exchanges with turkey that occured in the 19th century. This gives enough time for 50-75% of north-greek samples to have some of this ancestry.

    2. Mainland greeks did have levantine ancestry, but recent population replacements/assimilations by Vlachs and arvanites eliminated it in some northern sections. This would fall in line with Fallemayer.

    Simply put, whichever option is feasible, mainland greeks are not homogenous and this heteroegeanity was caused in the recent centuries, and one of their donor groups did not have levantine.


    Proof

    Photo 1 ---> Every laconian G25 sample shows levantine (evidence for ancient/early levantine admixture)
    Photo 2 ---> 100% of the campanian G25 samples shows levantine (evidence for ancient/early levantine admixture)
    Photo 3 ---> 25% of mainland greek samples do not show any levantine neolithic dna, Ganj Dareh is used and no adc 0.25x penalty is used.
    Photo 4 ---> ~40% of mainland greek samples do not show any levantine neolithic dna when Wezmeh is used; which is inline with the Iran_N substrate present in myceaneans/minoans. ~50% with adc column but im getting tired of pics lol.


    Using Baltic_LVA_HG instead of the Russian Medeival slav yields near-identical results.
    22222.PNG4444.PNG33333.PNG1111.PNG

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    Well the pictures did not post in order, sorry about that.

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    Feel free to test it out yourself but I made many models beforehand, using many slav samples and even basal component ones; the same pattern always emerged.

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    Iran_N is artifically high because I forgot a CHG sample, sorry.9999.PNG
    421.PNG


    All models are scaled btw.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by darknorman11; 07-29-2021 at 08:13 AM.

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    A few comments:

    1.) Lasting Levantine gene flow was probably never as strong in northern Greece as in the south, nor as strong in the mainland as the islands.

    2.) Anatolian (BA Anatolian-like) gene flow is the most important post-Neolithic West Asian element in Balkan and Aegean Greeks. Levantine is very much secondary.

    3.) Slavic ancestry is very unlikely to be the only north-shifting element at work in mainland Greeks. Paleobalkan ancestry from Thracian/Illyrian types is likely, too, if you ask me, especially if South Slavic-like people were the vectors for Slavic gene flow into Greece. And even before that Paleobalkan ancestry might already have been important in northern parts of mainland Greece, especially in Macedonia where we might expect some level of continuity with Helladic MBA (Logkas), as has been hinted at by Davidski in the past. We don't have any IA genomes from the region yet. Macedonians were peripheral Greeks and might have plotted more like Thracians than southern Greeks. They too could have had an "East Med-diluting" impact even before the Slavs showed up. I'm agnostic about a Dorian invasion, but who knows.

    4.) You should use more proximate samples here anyway. Levantine Neolithic (PPN) are not the people who brought Levantine ancestry into Greece. IA-type Levantines (like Ashkelon) are a better source. When you use PPNB you're going to depress the Levantine element because the historical Levantine elements would also have Anatolian and CHG/Iran Neo ancestry not in PPN.
    Ελευθερία ή θάνατος.

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    Yes but Levant_N should still show in any greek with levantine admixture right? It's not like distal models aren't used all the time. The fact remains that a portion of mainlanders show 0% Levant_N.

    Also in regards to ABA admixture this one is interesting, I remember a paper in 2019 modelled ABA as CHG + Barcin, no levant was used at all (a posted PCA showed a straight cline between the two); this could also explain all the Albanians/North Greeks with non-trivial Iran_N and Zero levantine. Do you know why the BA Anatolian G25 samples all show levantine though?

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    And the reason I don't like using "classical" samples is because modelling HRV_EBA with Beirut East-Roman and balkan classical samples gives you 15% beirut-east roman lol. Using the basal med/european components makes most sense; and this falls in line with modern samples. All southern italians score substantial Levant_N, so do all imperial/hellenistic orient samples. These are the models used in formal papers; (Levant_N, Iran_N, CHG, Steppe_EMBA, WHG, ENF)

    And the fact is we do not know the ethnogensis of groups like Albanians. We aren't descended from BGR_IA most likely, but our own mix of hungarian/romanian N, catacomb/unetice, etc.
    Last edited by darknorman11; 07-29-2021 at 09:16 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by darknorman11 View Post
    Yes but Levant_N should still show in any greek with levantine admixture right? It's not like distal models aren't used all the time.?
    Sure, but it will be reduced to the point that it might not show up at all. This happens in Northern Italians some times with basic components (Natufian doesn't register) even though I'm pretty convinced they do have some Levantine via East Med Imperial Roman ancestry.

    I would use a historical sample closer to modern Lebanese Christians as a Levantine proxy. I don't remember which samples are best for the job (maybe Ashkelon or Roman era Lebanon)-- just be careful not to use the Aegean-like Philistine outliers (I forget which ones they are). We don't have IA Anatolian genomes worth a shit, so you're sort of forced to use Anatolia MLBA for that. Also throw in something like Logkas (for Paleobalkan and speculatively IA Northern Greek) and a Slavic proxy (Avar_Szolad is often used). And of course, you need a BA Southern Greek proxy (Mycenaean/Emporiote can be combined for that).
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    Quote Originally Posted by darknorman11 View Post
    And the reason I don't like using "classical" samples is because modelling HRV_EBA with Beirut East-Roman and balkan classical samples gives you 15% beirut-east roman lol. Using the basal med/european components makes most sense; and this falls in line with modern samples.
    Why do you think that's weird?

    Using the "standard calculator":



    It's clear there was some post-EEF influence from Anatolia to the Balkans. Even modern North Macedonians show Levant_PPNB with your model (which is actually mediated through Anatolia, like Michalis said).

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    Barcin0724 is the purest Barcin sample, without much natufian overlap. It usually brings out the depressed levantine (atleast for the oldest remanents) in south Europeans.

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