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Thread: The genetic makeup of Russians

  1. #1
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    The genetic makeup of Russians

    I often read Russians are a mix of Slavs and Finnics but some also argue they have Mongol components because of the Golden Horde.
    As far as I understood "Nganassan" is common among Finns/Karelians but "Han" is minor among them (0.2%) while it's bigger among Mari or Mordovians. Some could argue it's because of the Mongols but when I check the Komi, they have 1.2% Han despite the Golden Horde didn't reach their lands.
    Can we know the genetic impact of Mongols in Russia?


    Target: Russian_Kursk
    Distance: 6.4973% / 0.06497323
    54.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    29.0 TUR_Barcin_N
    15.4 WHG
    0.4 Han
    0.4 Nganassan


    Target: Russian_Orel
    Distance: 6.5394% / 0.06539391
    54.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    30.0 TUR_Barcin_N
    15.2 WHG
    0.2 Han
    0.2 Nganassan


    Target: Russian_Smolensk
    Distance: 7.2604% / 0.07260441
    52.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    29.8 TUR_Barcin_N
    17.4 WHG


    Target: Russian_Tver
    Distance: 6.6805% / 0.06680484
    55.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    26.2 TUR_Barcin_N
    16.2 WHG
    1.6 Han
    0.4 Nganassan


    Target: Russian_Voronez
    Distance: 6.7713% / 0.06771278
    52.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    31.0 TUR_Barcin_N
    16.2 WHG
    0.2 Nganassan


    Target: Belarusian
    Distance: 7.3789% / 0.07378886
    53.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    29.2 TUR_Barcin_N
    17.8 WHG


    Target: Russian_Kostroma
    Distance: 6.3365% / 0.06336451
    54.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    24.4 TUR_Barcin_N
    15.8 WHG
    4.6 Nganassan
    1.0 Han

    Kostroma was populated by Finnics (Merya) before to be assimilated by Russians.


    Target: Russian_Pinega
    Distance: 6.9227% / 0.06922748
    52.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    19.0 TUR_Barcin_N
    18.8 WHG
    8.8 Nganassan
    0.8 Han

    Also populated by Finnics before to be assimilated by Russians.


    Finnic people :

    Target: Mordovian
    Distance: 6.0261% / 0.06026086
    54.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    25.0 TUR_Barcin_N
    14.4 WHG
    4.2 Nganassan
    2.4 Han


    Target: Mari
    Distance: 11.7443% / 0.11744317
    47.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    26.4 Nganassan
    12.8 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
    8.8 WHG
    4.0 Han
    0.6 MAR_Taforalt


    Target: Komi
    Distance: 5.2824% / 0.05282377
    54.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    18.2 TUR_Barcin_N
    14.4 Nganassan
    11.8 WHG
    1.2 Han


    Target: Finnish
    Distance: 5.9500% / 0.05949951
    53.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    22.8 TUR_Barcin_N
    18.8 WHG
    4.8 Nganassan


    Target: Finnish_East
    Distance: 6.3363% / 0.06336268
    53.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    19.8 WHG
    19.0 TUR_Barcin_N
    7.2 Nganassan
    0.2 Han


    Target: Karelian
    Distance: 6.2969% / 0.06296950
    53.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    19.6 TUR_Barcin_N
    19.6 WHG
    7.0 Nganassan
    0.2 Han

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  3. #2
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    The Nganassan component is from Siberian people. Nothing to do with mongols or huns.

    For example do the Saami people have 20-25% Siberian admixture, while West Finns have around 6% and East Finns can have up to 10%.

    North West Russia were originally populated by Finnic like people with higher Nganassan admixture than today.

    Some modern Russians are probably closer to West/central Slavs, Other to Balts and some to Finnic people.
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    Target: Nino_scaled
    Distance: 1.6700% / 0.01669968 | R3P
    53.6 Goth_Kowalewko = Germanic
    39.2 Levant_LBN_MA_o6 = South Euro
    7.2 RUS_Khaptsagai_IA = Steppe + Siberian

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    According my database (ref. FTDNA), the Y-DNA in the whole Russia is:

    R1b 7%
    R1a 23%
    I1 4%
    I2 4%
    E1b1b 4%
    J1 13%
    J2 19%
    Q 3%
    C 3%
    G2 4%
    N 15%
    O 1%

    Hope this helps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alejandromb92 View Post
    According my database (ref. FTDNA), the Y-DNA in the whole Russia is:

    R1b 7%
    R1a 23%
    I1 4%
    I2 4%
    E1b1b 4%
    J1 13%
    J2 19%
    Q 3%
    C 3%
    G2 4%
    N 15%
    O 1%

    Hope this helps.
    Looks like a lot of Ashkenazi from Russia are included in this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Standardized Ape View Post
    Looks like a lot of Ashkenazi from Russia are included in this.
    Yes, probably, but take in account that regions near the Caucasus have relative high % of J1 and J2. E1b1b might represent the russian jewish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Standardized Ape View Post
    Looks like a lot of Ashkenazi from Russia are included in this.
    From the looks of that breakdown (40% J1 + J2), they make up the majority of these FTDNA stats. It is possible some of those are ethnic minorities from the Caucasus but ethnic Russians/East-Slavs still make up the overwhelming majority of the population in the country so 40% J doesn't make sense.

    I'm not sure how reliable Y-DNA Wikipedia lists are but the data for Russians cite Balanosvky, and the numbers don't look anything like the ones from FTDNA.

    R1a is ridiculously domininant (50%+ in most regions), with the second-largest haplogroup being either N1c or I2a depending on the exact region.

    J* makes up barely 4%. It doesn't specify J1 or J2 but in all likelihood, those are the same J2 subclades found in Northern Europe plus distinct local branches like this 'Volgaic' subclade found in Mordvins and Tatars.

    Population Language family[1] n[2] R1b[3] n R1a n I n E1b1b n E1b1a n J n G n N n T n L n H
    Russians IE (Slavic, East) 122 6.6[25] 122 46.7[25] 122 6.6[25] 122 4.1[25] 122 18.0[25]
    Russians IE (Slavic, East) 414 6.8[62] 414 48.3[62] 414 15.9[62] 414 4.8[62] 414 0.0[62] 414 1.4[62] 414 1.2[62] 414 14.0[62]
    Russians (Northern)(Arkhangelsk region) IE (Slavic, East) 114 14.0[63] 114 40.0[63] 114 5.3[63] 114 0.0[63] 114 0.0[63] 114 0.9[63] 114 1.3[63] 114 39.3[63] 114 114
    Russians (Central) IE (Slavic, East) 364 7.7[63] 364 47.0[63] 364 16.5[63] 364 5.0[63] 364 0.0[63] 364 3.3[63] 364 0.0[63] 364 16.0[63] 364
    Russians (Southerns) IE (Slavic, East) 484 4.8[63] 484 56.9[63] 484 21.0[63] 484 1.8[63] 484 0.0[63] 484 3.5[63] 484 1.0[63] 484 10.0[63]
    Russians
    (Oryol region)
    IE (Slavic, East) 110 3.6[63] 110 62.7[63] 110 22.7[63] 110 0.9[63] 110 0.0[63] 110 0.9[63] 110 0.0[63] 110 5.4[63]
    Russians
    (Voronezh region)
    IE (Slavic, East) 96 5.2[63] 96 59.4[63] 96 20.8[63] 96 1.0[63] 96 0.0[63] 96 3.1[63] 96 2.1[63] 96 6.3[63]
    Russians
    (Tver region)
    IE (Slavic, East) 73 6.8[63] 73 56.2[63] 73 15.0[63] 73 4.1[63] 73 0.0[63] 73 4.1[63] 73 0.0[63] 73 11.0[63]
    Russians (Kuban Cossacks) IE (Slavic, East) 90 8.8[63] 90 47.3[63] 90 24.2[63] 90 3.3[63] 90 0.0[63] 90 4.4[63] 90 1.1[63] 90 7.7[63]
    Last edited by altvred; 07-29-2021 at 04:13 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standardized Ape View Post
    Looks like a lot of Ashkenazi from Russia are included in this.
    There's no doubt. 15-25% (depending on the subclade in question) of Ashkenazi Jews who have a country of origin listed put the Russian Fed. As there are almost 15,000 Ashkenazi Jews on FTDNA, there's no doubt they make up a significant segment of this dataset. I'd bet 10-20% of individuals in this sample are AJs.
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by leorcooper19 View Post
    There's no doubt. 15-25% (depending on the subclade in question) of Ashkenazi Jews who have a country of origin listed put the Russian Fed. As there are almost 15,000 Ashkenazi Jews on FTDNA, there's no doubt they make up a significant segment of this dataset. I'd bet 10-20% of individuals in this sample are AJs.
    Makes sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by altvred View Post
    From the looks of that breakdown (40% J1 + J2), they make up the majority of these FTDNA stats. It is possible some of those are ethnic minorities from the Caucasus but ethnic Russians/East-Slavs still make up the overwhelming majority of the population in the country so 40% J doesn't make sense.

    I'm not sure how reliable Y-DNA Wikipedia lists are but the data for Russians cite Balanosvky, and the numbers don't look anything like the ones from FTDNA.

    R1a is ridiculously domininant (50%+ in most regions), with the second-largest haplogroup being either N1c or I2a depending on the exact region.

    J* makes up barely 4%. It doesn't specify J1 or J2 but in all likelihood, those are the same J2 subclades found in Northern Europe plus distinct local branches like this 'Volgaic' subclade found in Mordvins and Tatars.

    Population Language family[1] n[2] R1b[3] n R1a n I n E1b1b n E1b1a n J n G n N n T n L n H
    Russians IE (Slavic, East) 122 6.6[25] 122 46.7[25] 122 6.6[25] 122 4.1[25] 122 18.0[25]
    Russians IE (Slavic, East) 414 6.8[62] 414 48.3[62] 414 15.9[62] 414 4.8[62] 414 0.0[62] 414 1.4[62] 414 1.2[62] 414 14.0[62]
    Russians (Northern)(Arkhangelsk region) IE (Slavic, East) 114 14.0[63] 114 40.0[63] 114 5.3[63] 114 0.0[63] 114 0.0[63] 114 0.9[63] 114 1.3[63] 114 39.3[63] 114 114
    Russians (Central) IE (Slavic, East) 364 7.7[63] 364 47.0[63] 364 16.5[63] 364 5.0[63] 364 0.0[63] 364 3.3[63] 364 0.0[63] 364 16.0[63] 364
    Russians (Southerns) IE (Slavic, East) 484 4.8[63] 484 56.9[63] 484 21.0[63] 484 1.8[63] 484 0.0[63] 484 3.5[63] 484 1.0[63] 484 10.0[63]
    Russians
    (Oryol region)
    IE (Slavic, East) 110 3.6[63] 110 62.7[63] 110 22.7[63] 110 0.9[63] 110 0.0[63] 110 0.9[63] 110 0.0[63] 110 5.4[63]
    Russians
    (Voronezh region)
    IE (Slavic, East) 96 5.2[63] 96 59.4[63] 96 20.8[63] 96 1.0[63] 96 0.0[63] 96 3.1[63] 96 2.1[63] 96 6.3[63]
    Russians
    (Tver region)
    IE (Slavic, East) 73 6.8[63] 73 56.2[63] 73 15.0[63] 73 4.1[63] 73 0.0[63] 73 4.1[63] 73 0.0[63] 73 11.0[63]
    Russians (Kuban Cossacks) IE (Slavic, East) 90 8.8[63] 90 47.3[63] 90 24.2[63] 90 3.3[63] 90 0.0[63] 90 4.4[63] 90 1.1[63] 90 7.7[63]
    13+19=32, way near to 30 than to 40.

    I agree with you but take in account that avars, lezgins and dargins are overwhemly J1, and chechens, azeris and georgians are high on J2. Also, like Cooper said last post, AJs are alot in FTDNA projects so it makes sense.

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    I used to think Russians have decent East Asian ancestry (like 10%)

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    Quote Originally Posted by avvaiyar View Post
    I used to think Russians have decent East Asian ancestry (like 10%)
    That is because majority of research papers use Russians from Kargopol as a reference population.But Kargopol represents only minority of Russians. Tver may be more appropriate to represent average Russian gene pool.

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