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Thread: The genetic origin of Daunians and the Pan-Mediterranean southern Italian Iron Age

  1. #21
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    But why does the qpadm show CHG/Iran in all but 3 of the Iron Age apulians? Am I the only one seeing this because I feel stupid now

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
    You also have to laugh at the depiction of the Sea Peoples as a "BA nomadic population", nomads they certainly weren't, at least no more than the Mycenaeans whose culture suddenly makes an appearance in virtually every area those same "nomads" settled in during the EIA (see the following post), as for the use of Amhara_NAF, well... Considering how the authors are aware of the Iron I Ashkelonites, this is simply bewildering.
    Man I literally was just poking fun about that "nomadic seafaring population" thing in another conversation, and I was just about to make fun of it here too until I saw your comment.

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    158 (...).Broadly, the contributions
    159 of such ancestries to the genetic variability of ancient European populations vary according to their
    160 geographical positions: in particular, northernmost locations received higher proportions of WHG,
    161 Steppe-related ancestry and, consequently, CHG ancestries, while Southern European groups
    162 carried variable Iranian Neolithic or CHG traces23. In view of this, we observed that while the IAA
    163 individuals could generally be modelled as a two-way admixture between AN and Steppe
    164 (0.630.08 and 0.370.08, respectively), the alternative model AN + CHG/IN could also fit for a
    165 subset of them, particularly in case of the samples ORD004, ORD010 and SAL010 with higher or
    166 comparable p-values (Figure S5A, first row with two sources).
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  6. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by darknorman11 View Post
    It appears there is some Iran_N ancestry in them. Attachment 45803
    The model marked as C shows exactly what I said above. The Croatian IA sample looks similar to majority of the IA Apulians and although elevated CHG shows in some of them, those are not majority.
    On the other hand, the Medieval and modern Apulians seem to be identical.
    Target: Aspar_scaled
    Distance: 1.9646% / 0.01964602 | ADC: 1x RC
    57.6 Macedonian
    42.4 Greek_Central_Macedonia

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspar View Post
    The model marked as C shows exactly what I said above. The Croatian IA sample looks similar to majority of the IA Apulians and although elevated CHG shows in some of them, those are not majority.
    On the other hand, the Medieval and modern Apulians seem to be identical.
    I don't know why minoans are used for that though, doesn't make sense. B clearly shows Iran/CHG in 9/14 samples; B makes the most sense as its using all the neolithic components and not trying to model HRV_EIA (who have no CHG) as Minoan + steppe. Honestly it seems this paper is doing damage to the italian science communities' reputation.
    Last edited by darknorman11; 07-31-2021 at 02:06 PM.

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    There might have been gene flow from Bronze Age Aegean-like people into this area. I believe we saw that same signal in some of the ancient Sicilians. It's not anywhere near enough CHG/Iran Neo to get you to modern East Med norms though.

    Also, some of the Copper Age Central Italians showed this, too, if I recall, at least in the official paper. Movements from the north (from steppe rich people) might have depressed it by the time you get to Iron Age Central Italy. I'll also need to review the BA Italian samples that came out recently.
    Last edited by Michalis Moriopoulos; 07-31-2021 at 02:14 PM.
    Ελευθερία ή θάνατος.

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    Yea not contesting that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RCO View Post
    SAL010 - J2b-M241
    J1 FGC5987 to FGC6175 (188 new SNPs)
    MDKAs before Colonial Brazil
    Y-DNA - Milhazes, Barcelos, Minho, Portugal.
    mtDNA - Ilha Terceira, Azores, Portugal
    North_Swedish + PT + PT + PT @ 3.96 EUtest 4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michalis Moriopoulos View Post
    Also... wtf:

    "and an individual from the 12th century Iron Age Ashkelon which clusters with ORD001"
    Maybe they mean the "Philistine" ASH067 sample which had excess European ancestry and was R1b? Several others in grouping ASH_IA1 also had excess European ancestry that was diluted afterwards.
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    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

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