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Thread: N-M231

  1. #1
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    N-M231

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    N-M231

    Hi all

    I am Kaelesi, i am from Maluku (indonesia).

    I got the results on Y37 YDNA on FTDNA is N-M231.

    And this is my results on Myheritage :
    66.3 % Filipino, Indonesian, and Malay
    27.4 % Papuan
    4.7 % Melanesian
    1.6 % Mesoamerican and Andean

    I am from Maluku / Moluccan, but i confused about my YDNA results, may somebody can explain to me..

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     alchemist223 (08-10-2021)

  3. #2
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    Alta California
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    Mostly French + Italian
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    American
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    R-BY3604
    Y-DNA (M)
    most likely J-L210
    mtDNA (P)
    K1b2b

    Canada Quebec Italy California Republic United States of America
    Interesting, N-M231 seems to be rare in this part of the world. Is your SNP confirmed (i.e. listed in green)?
    MDKA: Robert Boulay, b. 1631, Réveillon, Orne, France
    Y-DNA: R1b-U152 > L2 > Z367 > Z34 > Z33 > BY164497> BY3604

    Maternal Y-DNA: J2a-M67 > Z1847 > Y4036 > Z467 > Z447> L210

  4. #3
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    N-M231

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    -------

  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by alchemist223 View Post
    Interesting, N-M231 seems to be rare in this part of the world. Is your SNP confirmed (i.e. listed in green)?
    I'm still waiting for the results of upgrading to Big Y.... but other results like Nevgen, my results is : N1a1-M46 and N1a2 CTS6380 .
    Last edited by Kae Lesi; 08-11-2021 at 04:09 AM.

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  7. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kae Lesi View Post
    I'm still waiting for the results of upgrading to Big Y.... but other results like Nevgen, my results is : N1a1-M46 and N1a2 CTS6380 .
    Confirmed and probable cases of Y-DNA haplogroup N have been found among speakers of Austronesian languages in various academic studies:

    Manfred Kayser, Ying Choi, Mannis van Oven, et al. (2008), "The Impact of the Austronesian Expansion: Evidence from mtDNA and Y Chromosome Diversity in the Admiralty Islands of Melanesia"
    Borneo
    2/40 = 5.0% NO-M214(xO-M175)

    Fiji
    1/105 = 0.95% NO-M214(xO-M175)

    Moluccas
    0/33 NO-M214(xO-M175)

    Matthew E. Hurles, Bryan C. Sykes, Mark A. Jobling, and Peter Forster (2005), "The Dual Origin of the Malagasy in Island Southeast Asia and East Africa: Evidence from Maternal and Paternal Lineages"
    Kota Kinabalu
    1/65 = 1.5% N-LLY22g

    Jean A Trejaut, Estella S Poloni, Ju-Chen Yen, et al. (2014), "Taiwan Y-chromosomal DNA variation and its relationship with Island Southeast Asia"
    South Luzon
    2/55 = 3.6% NO-M214(xM175, LLY22g)

    Visayas
    3/31 = 9.7% NO-M214(xM175, LLY22g)
    1/31 = 3.2% N-LLY22g(xM128, M178)

    Unknown Philippines (i.e. Filipinos whose regional origin is uncertain)
    2/22 = 9.1% NO-M214(xM175, LLY22g)

    Sumatra (south)
    1/18 = 5.6% N-LLY22g(xM128, M178)

    Frederick Delfin, Jazelyn M Salvador, Gayvelline C Calacal, et al. (2011), "The Y-chromosome landscape of the Philippines: extensive heterogeneity and varying genetic affinities of Negrito and non-Negrito groups"
    Surigaonon
    4/32 = 12.5% NO-M214(xO-M175)

    Manobo (Agusan)
    2/56 = 3.6% NO-M214(xO-M175)

    Mamanwa
    1/55 = 1.8% NO-M214(xO-M175)

    However, I do not recall having seen any probable cases of Y-DNA haplogroup N from the Moluccas.

    Unfortunately, perhaps because of the low average frequency of Y-DNA haplogroup N in the region, geneticists studying Southeast Asian populations have rarely bothered to confirm membership in haplogroup N-M231, let alone present results for any downstream SNPs.

    There used to be two cases tabulated under the N-P83 clade on the Y-DNA Haplotree at FTDNA that had been marked as originating from Papua New Guinea in addition to two cases marked as originating from Japan. The Papua New Guinea marking has been removed from the current version of the Haplotree; I do not know the reason for this change. The two Japanese cases are still marked as such.

    According to the current version of the YFull tree, N-Y23747/N-P83 (formed 11,900 [95% CI 10,400 <-> 13,400] ybp, TMRCA 6,500 [95% CI 5,500 <-> 7,600] ybp) is one of two primary subclades of N-TAT. Extant members of N-P83 may be divided into two primary subclades. One of these subclades has been found sporadically in Japan; YFull currently has one example from Aichi and one example from Hokkaido. (Please keep in mind that subclades of haplogroup N-M231, and not just N-P83 alone, altogether account for less than 2% of the male population of Japan, so this subclade must be quite rare.) The other known subclade of N-P83 has been found sporadically in China (including members of certain ethnic minority populations, such as Oroqen and Tibetan) and Korea.

    A specimen from the Early Neolithic layer at the Houtaomuga site located at the southern edge of the Amur River basin in northwestern Jilin appears to be basal to all extant members of haplogroup N-P83.

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  9. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ebizur View Post
    Confirmed and probable cases of Y-DNA haplogroup N have been found among speakers of Austronesian languages in various academic studies:

    Manfred Kayser, Ying Choi, Mannis van Oven, et al. (2008), "The Impact of the Austronesian Expansion: Evidence from mtDNA and Y Chromosome Diversity in the Admiralty Islands of Melanesia"
    Borneo
    2/40 = 5.0% NO-M214(xO-M175)

    Fiji
    1/105 = 0.95% NO-M214(xO-M175)

    Moluccas
    0/33 NO-M214(xO-M175)

    Matthew E. Hurles, Bryan C. Sykes, Mark A. Jobling, and Peter Forster (2005), "The Dual Origin of the Malagasy in Island Southeast Asia and East Africa: Evidence from Maternal and Paternal Lineages"
    Kota Kinabalu
    1/65 = 1.5% N-LLY22g

    Jean A Trejaut, Estella S Poloni, Ju-Chen Yen, et al. (2014), "Taiwan Y-chromosomal DNA variation and its relationship with Island Southeast Asia"
    South Luzon
    2/55 = 3.6% NO-M214(xM175, LLY22g)

    Visayas
    3/31 = 9.7% NO-M214(xM175, LLY22g)
    1/31 = 3.2% N-LLY22g(xM128, M178)

    Unknown Philippines (i.e. Filipinos whose regional origin is uncertain)
    2/22 = 9.1% NO-M214(xM175, LLY22g)

    Sumatra (south)
    1/18 = 5.6% N-LLY22g(xM128, M178)

    Frederick Delfin, Jazelyn M Salvador, Gayvelline C Calacal, et al. (2011), "The Y-chromosome landscape of the Philippines: extensive heterogeneity and varying genetic affinities of Negrito and non-Negrito groups"
    Surigaonon
    4/32 = 12.5% NO-M214(xO-M175)

    Manobo (Agusan)
    2/56 = 3.6% NO-M214(xO-M175)

    Mamanwa
    1/55 = 1.8% NO-M214(xO-M175)

    However, I do not recall having seen any probable cases of Y-DNA haplogroup N from the Moluccas.

    Unfortunately, perhaps because of the low average frequency of Y-DNA haplogroup N in the region, geneticists studying Southeast Asian populations have rarely bothered to confirm membership in haplogroup N-M231, let alone present results for any downstream SNPs.

    There used to be two cases tabulated under the N-P83 clade on the Y-DNA Haplotree at FTDNA that had been marked as originating from Papua New Guinea in addition to two cases marked as originating from Japan. The Papua New Guinea marking has been removed from the current version of the Haplotree; I do not know the reason for this change. The two Japanese cases are still marked as such.

    According to the current version of the YFull tree, N-Y23747/N-P83 (formed 11,900 [95% CI 10,400 <-> 13,400] ybp, TMRCA 6,500 [95% CI 5,500 <-> 7,600] ybp) is one of two primary subclades of N-TAT. Extant members of N-P83 may be divided into two primary subclades. One of these subclades has been found sporadically in Japan; YFull currently has one example from Aichi and one example from Hokkaido. (Please keep in mind that subclades of haplogroup N-M231, and not just N-P83 alone, altogether account for less than 2% of the male population of Japan, so this subclade must be quite rare.) The other known subclade of N-P83 has been found sporadically in China (including members of certain ethnic minority populations, such as Oroqen and Tibetan) and Korea.

    A specimen from the Early Neolithic layer at the Houtaomuga site located at the southern edge of the Amur River basin in northwestern Jilin appears to be basal to all extant members of haplogroup N-P83.
    My Y-DNA (Patrilineal) predictions in Nevgen are N1a1-M46 and N1a2-CTS6380.

    In the article i linked for explains that among the 21 different haplotypes identified in the ancient Yakut population, 17 belonged to haplogroup N1a1-M46 (92% individuals), 1 belonged to haplogroup N1a2-CTS6380 (2 individuals), 1 belonged to haplogroup C2-M217 ( 2 individuals) and 1 to the haplogroup C2b1a1b1-F3985 (1 individual).

    These haplogroups N1a1-M46 and N1a2-CTS6380 reach a maximum frequency of about 90% in the Yakut (Saka) people. In addition, it was also identified in the Tuvan mongush and oorjak people, which reached a frequency of about 63%. In addition, there is also a frequency in the Chinese and Japanese.

    Tuvan is located in Southern Siberia. The territory of Tuvan was controlled by the Xiongnu Empire (209 BC – 93 AD) and the states of Xianbei (93–234), Rouran Khaganate (330–555), Yenisei Kyrgyz (7th – 13th centuries), Mongol Empire (1206–1271) , Yuan Dynasty (1271–1368), Northern Yuan Dynasty (1368–1691), Khotgoid Khanate and Zunghar Khanate (1634–1758). Medieval Mongol tribes, including the Oirats and Tumeds, inhabited the area that is now part of the Tuvan Republic.

    Yakut or Yakutia or also called Saka is located in the Northeast Siberian region which has a very dry continental climate (very cold winters and very hot summers). The first people to inhabit the region were the Tungus people who are genetically related to Chinese-Mongolians. Genetic studies determined that during migration these Yakuts came from the region around Lake Baikal in South Seberia. Yakut is linguistically Turkish, although this dominant genetic lineage of N1a1-M46 is unusual for the Turkish population.

    Yakut are people who herd cattle and horses as a way of life. In their language the horse is 'ata' or 'at'. Interesting, it's a bit similar to the language in our village, we call horses 'ata'la' and our ancestors' names used the word 'Saka' before having the title which is now a clan.

    and also, according to the anthropologist A.H. Keane, the Moluccan is a mixture of the Mongolian and Papuan peoples.

    Yes this may be related to Austronesian? need further research.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s42003-020-01307-3

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  11. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kae Lesi View Post
    My Y-DNA (Patrilineal) predictions in Nevgen are N1a1-M46 and N1a2-CTS6380.

    In the article i linked for explains that among the 21 different haplotypes identified in the ancient Yakut population, 17 belonged to haplogroup N1a1-M46 (92% individuals), 1 belonged to haplogroup N1a2-CTS6380 (2 individuals), 1 belonged to haplogroup C2-M217 ( 2 individuals) and 1 to the haplogroup C2b1a1b1-F3985 (1 individual).

    These haplogroups N1a1-M46 and N1a2-CTS6380 reach a maximum frequency of about 90% in the Yakut (Saka) people. In addition, it was also identified in the Tuvan mongush and oorjak people, which reached a frequency of about 63%. In addition, there is also a frequency in the Chinese and Japanese.

    Tuvan is located in Southern Siberia. The territory of Tuvan was controlled by the Xiongnu Empire (209 BC – 93 AD) and the states of Xianbei (93–234), Rouran Khaganate (330–555), Yenisei Kyrgyz (7th – 13th centuries), Mongol Empire (1206–1271) , Yuan Dynasty (1271–1368), Northern Yuan Dynasty (1368–1691), Khotgoid Khanate and Zunghar Khanate (1634–1758). Medieval Mongol tribes, including the Oirats and Tumeds, inhabited the area that is now part of the Tuvan Republic.

    Yakut or Yakutia or also called Saka is located in the Northeast Siberian region which has a very dry continental climate (very cold winters and very hot summers). The first people to inhabit the region were the Tungus people who are genetically related to Chinese-Mongolians. Genetic studies determined that during migration these Yakuts came from the region around Lake Baikal in South Seberia. Yakut is linguistically Turkish, although this dominant genetic lineage of N1a1-M46 is unusual for the Turkish population.

    Yakut are people who herd cattle and horses as a way of life. In their language the horse is 'ata' or 'at'. Interesting, it's a bit similar to the language in our village, we call horses 'ata'la' and our ancestors' names used the word 'Saka' before having the title which is now a clan.

    and also, according to the anthropologist A.H. Keane, the Moluccan is a mixture of the Mongolian and Papuan peoples.

    Yes this may be related to Austronesian? need further research.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s42003-020-01307-3
    Moluccans are a mixture of Austronesians and Papuans,not Mongolians.The Austronesians supposedly came through the Phillipines by way of Taiwan Aborigines.

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  13. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kae Lesi View Post
    Hi all

    I am Kaelesi, i am from Maluku (indonesia).

    I got the results on Y37 YDNA on FTDNA is N-M231.

    And this is my results on Myheritage :
    66.3 % Filipino, Indonesian, and Malay
    27.4 % Papuan
    4.7 % Melanesian
    1.6 % Mesoamerican and Andean

    I am from Maluku / Moluccan, but i confused about my YDNA results, may somebody can explain to me..
    You are only the fourth Moluccan I have seen DNA results attribute some MesoAmerican and Amerindian dna.Its always the same percentage of between 1 to 3 percent as well.Why is this?

  14. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by witness View Post
    Moluccans are a mixture of Austronesians and Papuans,not Mongolians.The Austronesians supposedly came through the Phillipines by way of Taiwan Aborigines.
    indeed... it is possible that this prediction of haplogroup N leads to an Austronesian population. for me, it's all just prediction by FTDNA... need further research.

  15. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by witness View Post
    You are only the fourth Moluccan I have seen DNA results attribute some MesoAmerican and Amerindian dna.Its always the same percentage of between 1 to 3 percent as well.Why is this?
    I don't know.. it's possible that the Portuguese brought slaves from America when they came to Moluccas. this is just my thought

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