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Thread: Odd increases in Scottish in Ulster Irish (native Irish) people

  1. #1
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    Odd increases in Scottish in Ulster Irish (native Irish) people

    Perhaps this is a coincidence and only in my own results. What I have noticed is a marked increase in the Scottish percentages allocated to the Ulster Irish or Native Irish matches within my own match list.

    My own mother who has no Ulster Scots ancestry has seen an increase of 5% of her allocated Scottish. My mother is now 23% Great Britain. To me this makes no sense and is out of kilter.

    Furthermore my cousin has risen from 26% Scottish to 41% Scottish. This also makes no sense.

    Most of my native Irish matches have saw an increase in Scottish. Many as much as 20%-25%.

    What I find interesting is that my myself and my father have had a decrease in our Scottish percentage.

    What is this supposed to be inferring? Surely if there is Irish dna that appears Scottish, Ulster Scots people would see an increase, not native Irish?

    So if native Irish are seeing an increase does this mean that ancestry have sourced more Scottish references from the highlands and Irish like places? Iím quite confused with this and wonder where their reference population is coming from. There is no way in my mind that anyone from a homogenous established community should see a 25% change in their ethnicity results.

    Has anyone else seen a similar pattern?

    (I know people are going to talk about interconnections but I am genuinely curious as to why this pattern is occurring and wonder if itís something to do with their reference population)
    Last edited by Nqp15hhu; 09-19-2021 at 07:44 AM.

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  3. #2
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    Unfortunately I can't speak to what it looks like from a homogeneous perspective, as I'm pretty mixed. However, myself and my immediate family do also see levels of Scottish that I don't believe are accurate in the test, and these have been steadily increasing with the updates being put out.

    My mother's results are the extreme example of this:

    mothernew.png

    I've not identified any Irish on her side, so I'm guessing it's coming through the Scottish, maybe through the Outer Hebrides community? However, 23andme also gives me a region of Belfast, so maybe there is something I just haven't found yet.

    At any rate, there still seems to be issues with these categories. Her French and English should be a bit higher based on paper trail, and Scottish along with Irish a bit lower. There is a 16% increase in her Scottish compared to the last update, which also had an increase over the prior results.

    My own results went from 47% French and 39% Scottish & Irish in my initial test results, to the newest update showing me 15% French and 40% Scottish along with 23% Irish. As a note though, their Scottish category also covers Brittany, so that may explain why some French may have moved to Scottish for me. I would guess if they are using Brittany as part of the Scottish region, some of the references for Scottish must be from there? I don't know if that would also influence native Irish results however.
    Last edited by linthos; 09-21-2021 at 12:59 PM.
    Paper Trail - Primarily French Canadian and Scottish (through Canada), after that there is English, Portuguese, German, and a small amount of Native American.

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    My uncle's Scottish increased in the update and his Irish reduced - their positions are basically reversed now from what they were before. In our case, this makes a lot of sense for two reasons: (a) our known Ulster lines are Scottish in origin, so by rights Scotland should theoretically receive a higher percentage for us than Ireland, and (b) we also have a line from a part of Cumbria (which Ancestry is including in its Scottish region), so that's multiple lines that are feeding into my uncle's 'Scottish' regional grouping. As such, the Ireland versus Scotland ratio in my uncle's Ancestry is now looking a lot more like it 'should' look based on what we (think we) know from the paper trail. Exactly how that's occurred from a methodological point of view, though, and whether others are seeing increasingly close alignments between their results and their paper trails (or whether they're becoming more divergent), I don't know.

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  7. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cunobelinus_T View Post
    My uncle's Scottish increased in the update and his Irish reduced - their positions are basically reversed now from what they were before. In our case, this makes a lot of sense for two reasons: (a) our known Ulster lines are Scottish in origin, so by rights Scotland should theoretically receive a higher percentage for us than Ireland, and (b) we also have a line from a part of Cumbria (which Ancestry is including in its Scottish region), so that's multiple lines that are feeding into my uncle's 'Scottish' regional grouping. As such, the Ireland versus Scotland ratio in my uncle's Ancestry is now looking a lot more like it 'should' look based on what we (think we) know from the paper trail. Exactly how that's occurred from a methodological point of view, though, and whether others are seeing increasingly close alignments between their results and their paper trails (or whether they're becoming more divergent), I don't know.
    So my results have flipped 8% to Irish. However, my Irish range has actually increased. I have no way of knowing if this is a valid assessment of my autosomal make up, due to poor records.

    I do know Iím about a third Scottish so itís *not far out*

    Good for you that youíve got a more concrete understanding of your ethnic make up though.
    Last edited by Nqp15hhu; 09-21-2021 at 01:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nqp15hhu View Post
    Perhaps this is a coincidence and only in my own results. What I have noticed is a marked increase in the Scottish percentages allocated to the Ulster Irish or Native Irish matches within my own match list.

    My own mother who has no Ulster Scots ancestry has seen an increase of 5% of her allocated Scottish. My mother is now 23% Great Britain. To me this makes no sense and is out of kilter.

    Furthermore my cousin has risen from 26% Scottish to 41% Scottish. This also makes no sense.

    Most of my native Irish matches have saw an increase in Scottish. Many as much as 20%-25%.

    What I find interesting is that my myself and my father have had a decrease in our Scottish percentage.

    What is this supposed to be inferring? Surely if there is Irish dna that appears Scottish, Ulster Scots people would see an increase, not native Irish?

    So if native Irish are seeing an increase does this mean that ancestry have sourced more Scottish references from the highlands and Irish like places? I’m quite confused with this and wonder where their reference population is coming from. There is no way in my mind that anyone from a homogenous established community should see a 25% change in their ethnicity results.

    Has anyone else seen a similar pattern?

    (I know people are going to talk about interconnections but I am genuinely curious as to why this pattern is occurring and wonder if it’s something to do with their reference population)
    Before the update, AncestryDNA said I was 95% Irish and 5% Scottish. After the update, they say I am 91% Irish and 9% Scottish but that my Scottish sector may range from 0% to 19%.

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  11. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nqp15hhu View Post
    Perhaps this is a coincidence and only in my own results. What I have noticed is a marked increase in the Scottish percentages allocated to the Ulster Irish or Native Irish matches within my own match list.

    My own mother who has no Ulster Scots ancestry has seen an increase of 5% of her allocated Scottish. My mother is now 23% Great Britain. To me this makes no sense and is out of kilter.

    Furthermore my cousin has risen from 26% Scottish to 41% Scottish. This also makes no sense.

    Most of my native Irish matches have saw an increase in Scottish. Many as much as 20%-25%.

    What I find interesting is that my myself and my father have had a decrease in our Scottish percentage.

    What is this supposed to be inferring? Surely if there is Irish dna that appears Scottish, Ulster Scots people would see an increase, not native Irish?

    So if native Irish are seeing an increase does this mean that ancestry have sourced more Scottish references from the highlands and Irish like places? I’m quite confused with this and wonder where their reference population is coming from. There is no way in my mind that anyone from a homogenous established community should see a 25% change in their ethnicity results.

    Has anyone else seen a similar pattern?

    (I know people are going to talk about interconnections but I am genuinely curious as to why this pattern is occurring and wonder if it’s something to do with their reference population)
    This is what I have been questioning since the 2020 Update. My father and three grandparents were from Belfast, but their lines traced back to Donegal, Derry, Cavan, and Armagh. All but one line was Catholic, with surnames including Doherty, Curran, McGourty, Diver, and McHugh. I do have a 2X great grandfather, McDonald, from South Uist in the Outer Hebrides, and I have some Scots surnames, but not enough to give me a 54% Scotland result.

    I am also 25% French Canadian, so that 54% is out of a possible 75%. I'm inclined to cut it half and add it to my Irish score.
    Y-DNA R-DF23>ZP149>ZP171 MDKA Thomas Doherty, b. 1825, Three Trees, Donegal, Ireland.
    mtDNA T2g1 MDKA Francoise Arguin, b. 1698, Camaret-Sur-Mer, Bretagne, France

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  13. #7
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    What is your Irish range?

  14. #8
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    My Irish range is 0 - 22% , which is down from 17%. It may reflect my one line from Kerry. My Scotland is 27 - 54%. Scotland is the only result I have that isn't 0 - something.
    Y-DNA R-DF23>ZP149>ZP171 MDKA Thomas Doherty, b. 1825, Three Trees, Donegal, Ireland.
    mtDNA T2g1 MDKA Francoise Arguin, b. 1698, Camaret-Sur-Mer, Bretagne, France

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  16. #9
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    Hmmm to be honest 0 regions are a bit teetering on the edge. I donít think that you are as Irish as you think.

  17. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nqp15hhu View Post
    Hmmm to be honest 0 regions are a bit teetering on the edge. I don’t think that you are as Irish as you think.
    Perhaps, but my ancestors going back to the early 1800s lived as Native Irish and not as Planters. Also, my maternal grandmother was a French speaking Quebecois and this time around I dropped to 15% French with a 0 - 34% range. Ancestry may not be as precise as they think.
    Y-DNA R-DF23>ZP149>ZP171 MDKA Thomas Doherty, b. 1825, Three Trees, Donegal, Ireland.
    mtDNA T2g1 MDKA Francoise Arguin, b. 1698, Camaret-Sur-Mer, Bretagne, France

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