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Thread: Upcoming paper on Anglo-Saxon migration period??

  1. #3401
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonikW View Post

    As an initial reaction to your ideas, it strikes me that they might not be surprising at all if correct. We know for certain that many Germanic men served in the Roman army, particularly in the later decades - exactly when the Mithras cult was so important inside the legions. So a lasting legacy from mithraism inside Germanic mythology (spread initially by high-status and influential returning soldiers) wouldn't actually be as outlandish as it might first appear.
    I'm very glad that you like my ideas, JonikW, esp. as one can feel your passion for ancient cultures in all of your posts. We see the huge influence of Christian iconography soon later so it would really not come as a surprise that also the very influential Mithras cult left traces in thinking and art.

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    Not exactly Anglo-Saxons but as we discussed here also about the fate of the old Frisians this new hoard found of 96 Roman silver coins in Filsum near Leer (Ostfriesland) might be of interest. Youngest coin from Septimius Severus (193-211).

    https://www.sueddeutsche.de/wissen/a...1121-99-606906

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orentil View Post
    Not exactly Anglo-Saxons but as we discussed here also about the fate of the old Frisians this new hoard found of 96 Roman silver coins in Filsum near Leer (Ostfriesland) might be of interest. Youngest coin from Septimius Severus (193-211).

    https://www.sueddeutsche.de/wissen/a...1121-99-606906
    Interesting find! But I guess it says more about the Chauken.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    Interesting find! But I guess it says more about the Chauken.
    Hhm, Chauci. We know of course that Chauci pirates devastated the coasts on both sides of the Channel between 170-200 AD. We know also about Roman punitive expeditions into Germania in 213 AD (!) against Alemanni and in 235 AD (surely related to the in the meantime famous Harzhorn battle) most probably against Suebi, surely we do not know all expeditions. Unfortunately to what I have read so far the archaeologists were not able to find any context for the hoard, but some iron Roman sandal nails would of course be of a higher scientific value than the silver coins Needless to say that there are of course plenty of possible explanations for such a hoard, just dreaming...

    PS: Wow, incredible how quick Wikipedia authors are, an article at the same day. It wasn't me

    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%B...atz_von_Filsum
    Last edited by Orentil; 11-22-2022 at 09:02 PM.

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    A global database helps explore the complex history of our genes and languages

    https://www.mpg.de/19524042/1121-eva...ether-150495-x

    One remaining question is why Germanic languages differ from e.g. Italo-Celtic and Baltic languages. My guess is that it has something to do with the origins and rapid expansion of I1, let's see if we get more data next year on the origins.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orentil View Post
    A global database helps explore the complex history of our genes and languages

    https://www.mpg.de/19524042/1121-eva...ether-150495-x

    One remaining question is why Germanic languages differ from e.g. Italo-Celtic and Baltic languages. My guess is that it has something to do with the origins and rapid expansion of I1, let's see if we get more data next year on the origins.
    I guess the 'core Germanics' Jastorf derived are the Semnones, already Tacitus considered them as the 'ones with the oldest rights',

    initial they lived between the Havel and Spree, not fare from Berlin, pretty eastwards.

    The ancestors of the Semnones:

    https://www.academia.edu/80628125/Th...astorf_Culture

    In the late Bronze Age, the Teltow was densely populated by the Lusatian culture. However, a massive decline in settlement activity occurred at the beginning of the Hallstatt period. At this time, it was the Early Iron-Age Billendorf group and the Spree River estuary group, which was undertheir cultural infuence, which settled in the region. Only a few finds from the older stage of Billendorf I (Ha C‒D1)have been found in the region for this period The Teltowand the directly adjacent areas seem to have been at times almost devoid of settlements during the younger stage Billendorf IIa (Ha D2)

    Later on in Ha D2, the Jastorf culture began to repopulate the Teltow. After the hiatus, there was a clear increase in the number of sites. Cultural references to the Havel River region suggest that there was an influx of population groups from this area.In the pre-Roman Iron Age(approx. 550‒50 BC), the Teltow formed part of the distribution area of the Mittelelb-Havel group, and thus to the core area of the Jastorf culture.

    ...
    After a phase of intensive settlement by the Jastorf culture (Fig. 1), there occurred a general decline in settlement in the Late pre-Roman Iron
    Age or in the first half of the 1st century BC
    Tacitus about a sacred grove of the Semnones:

    At a stated period, all the tribes of the same race assemble by their representatives in a grove consecrated by the auguries of their forefathers, and by immemorial associations of terror. Here, having publicly slaughtered a human victim, they celebrate the horrible beginning of their barbarous rite. Reverence also in other ways is paid to the grove. No one enters it except bound with a chain, as an inferior acknowledging the might of the local divinity. If he chance to fall, it is not lawful for him to be lifted up, or to rise to his feet; he must crawl out along the ground. All this superstition implies the belief that from this spot the nation took its origin, that here dwells the supreme and all-ruling deity, to whom all else is subject and obedient.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grove_of_Fetters

    Short prezi:
    https://prezi.com/p/7uvedd_9aczw/cat...e-of-semnones/

    They were the core Germanic group of the Suebi/Elb-Germanics, imo in genetics, culture and language.....
    Last edited by Finn; 11-23-2022 at 07:55 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orentil View Post
    A global database helps explore the complex history of our genes and languages

    https://www.mpg.de/19524042/1121-eva...ether-150495-x

    One remaining question is why Germanic languages differ from e.g. Italo-Celtic and Baltic languages. My guess is that it has something to do with the origins and rapid expansion of I1, let's see if we get more data next year on the origins.
    I1 and N1c contact and expansion.

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    The Semnones, the oldest attested Suebi/Elb Germanics belonged to the Middle Elbe Havel group of Jastorf. Imo core Elbe Germanics.

    In teal:





    from:
    https://www.gw.uni-jena.de/phifakmed...rn-germany.pdf
    Last edited by Finn; 11-24-2022 at 01:02 PM.

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    Suebi spread around the whole Baltic Sea coastline, they where traders enabling the long distance trade between Central Europe, Fennoscandia and the eastern river systems of modern day Russia.

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