Page 40 of 132 FirstFirst ... 3038394041425090 ... LastLast
Results 391 to 400 of 1316

Thread: Upcoming paper on Anglo-Saxon migration period??

  1. #391
    Registered Users
    Posts
    94
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b
    mtDNA (M)
    T2b

    England England North of England Cornwall Ireland
    Quote Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post
    doubt that the majority of the France Iron Age-like ancestry is going to be post-Norman and rather will be late Iron Age and Roman era
    Unless I have misinterpreted, the French component is found in the present day population but not in the iron age or early middle age populations of Britain. So these migrants carrying French IA ancestry must have arrived after the early middle ages, unless they arrived earlier but for some didnt mix with the existing population and are hidden in the EMA samples. Have I misunderstood something?

  2. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to V-X For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (06-26-2022),  Andour (06-26-2022),  Anglecynn (06-26-2022),  Brittunculi (06-27-2022),  Cartographer (06-26-2022),  Riverman (06-26-2022),  Ruderico (06-26-2022),  Straboo (06-27-2022)

  3. #392
    Registered Users
    Posts
    223
    Sex
    Omitted

    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    I always thought the Norman impact on the British Isles might be severely underestimated, regardless of how much it really was, it won't be "just nothing of importance". Since I'm specialised on E-V13, I noticed that some regions with higher concentration of E-V13 in Ireland for example might be associated with Norman era settlement. That doesn't tell us where exactly they came from, but its possible, just possible, that some lineages entered Ireland from the Norman zone in Britain and might have been there no longer than Norman rule.
    The biggest issue is here once more the lack of testing. Like I know about a lot of E-V13 in France of which only a miniscule number has tested the BigY and an even smaller number had done the upload to YFull.
    Btw, Matt at Eurogenes linked something that might interest you. Some of the northwestern parts of Wales seem to have a hotspot of it.
    Last edited by DFSTFD; 06-26-2022 at 02:51 PM.

  4. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to DFSTFD For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (06-26-2022),  JonikW (06-26-2022),  Riverman (06-26-2022)

  5. #393
    Registered Users
    Posts
    5,492
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by DFSTFD View Post
    Btw, Matt at Eurogenes linked something that might interest you. Some of the northwestern parts of Wales seem to have a hotspot of it.
    Thank you! Looks like a regional founder effect, but would be great to know the subclades like always. There is at first look a negative correlation with I1 and a positive with R1b-S128 within England-Wales. Interesting. Will be also interesting which percentage of I1 the different tribal groups of the Early Anglo Saxons had.
    Last edited by Riverman; 06-26-2022 at 03:08 PM.

  6. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Riverman For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (06-26-2022),  JonikW (06-26-2022),  spruithean (06-26-2022)

  7. #394
    Registered Users
    Posts
    5,199
    Sex
    Location
    Eastern North America
    Ethnicity
    80% Brit/Irish, 19% N Eur
    Nationality
    AMCIT
    aDNA Match (1st)
    GRO010 Groningen, Netherlands 0.0199
    aDNA Match (2nd)
    HAD009 Cambridgeshire 0.0205
    aDNA Match (3rd)
    SWG008 Schleswig-Holstein 0.0213
    Y-DNA (P)
    U152>L2>Z49>Z142>
    mtDNA (M)
    H1bt
    Y-DNA (M)
    I2a2a1b2a1b1>Y4925
    mtDNA (P)
    H37

    England Scotland Wales Germany Palatinate Ireland Leinster Sweden Finns
    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellSince1893 View Post
    I must be missing something. According to map on left,
    Iron Age and Roman Era immigrants to Britain came from Denmark, N Germany, Poland, Ukraine and Czechoslovakia?
    Think I figured out what I was missing.
    The map on left is showing pre 400 AD CNE=Anglo Saxon ancestry origins, not British Isles ancestry origins.

    This would imply a genetic similarity between the traditional home of the Anglo Saxons and folks from Poland, Ukraine, and Czechoslovakia.

    Edit jonvikW is saying something similar in post 384.

    So map on left isn’t telling us anything about pre 400 ad immigrates to Britain.
    Last edited by MitchellSince1893; 06-26-2022 at 03:10 PM.
    Y DNA line continued: Z142>Z12222>FGC12378>FGC12401>FGC12384
    35% English, 15% Scottish, 14% Welsh, 14% German, 11% Ulster Scot, 5% Ireland, 3% Scandinavian, 2% French/Dutch, 1% India
    "Nemo est supra leges."

  8. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to MitchellSince1893 For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (06-26-2022),  jadegreg (06-26-2022),  JMcB (06-26-2022),  JonikW (06-26-2022),  razyn (06-26-2022),  V-X (06-26-2022)

  9. #395
    Registered Users
    Posts
    94
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b
    mtDNA (M)
    T2b

    England England North of England Cornwall Ireland
    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellSince1893 View Post
    This would imply a genetic similarity between the traditional home of the Anglo Saxons and folks from Poland, Ukraine, and Czechoslovakia.
    I believe the left map is a version of this, but presumably based on genetics rather than written sources.

    pre_migration_age_germanic.png

    I think one interesting aspect of the right hand map is the lack of migrants in Northern France and Loire valley, but I suppose that's a topic for a different thread.

  10. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to V-X For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (06-26-2022),  Dewsloth (06-26-2022),  JMcB (06-26-2022),  MitchellSince1893 (06-26-2022)

  11. #396
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    7,436
    Sex
    Location
    Groningen
    Ethnicity
    Friso-Saxon
    Nationality
    NL
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-V22
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1bU106/ DF96

    Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellSince1893 View Post
    Think I figured out what I was missing.
    The map on left is showing pre 400 AD CNE=Anglo Saxon ancestry origins, not British Isles ancestry origins.

    This would imply a genetic similarity between the traditional home of the Anglo Saxons and folks from Poland, Ukraine, and Czechoslovakia.

    Edit jonvikW is saying something similar in post 384.

    So map on left isn’t telling us anything about pre 400 ad immigrates to Britain.
    I'm thinking about the Germanic chieftain from Poprad......

  12. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Finn For This Useful Post:

     JonikW (06-26-2022),  W‚ldpykjong (06-26-2022)

  13. #397
    Registered Users
    Posts
    5,199
    Sex
    Location
    Eastern North America
    Ethnicity
    80% Brit/Irish, 19% N Eur
    Nationality
    AMCIT
    aDNA Match (1st)
    GRO010 Groningen, Netherlands 0.0199
    aDNA Match (2nd)
    HAD009 Cambridgeshire 0.0205
    aDNA Match (3rd)
    SWG008 Schleswig-Holstein 0.0213
    Y-DNA (P)
    U152>L2>Z49>Z142>
    mtDNA (M)
    H1bt
    Y-DNA (M)
    I2a2a1b2a1b1>Y4925
    mtDNA (P)
    H37

    England Scotland Wales Germany Palatinate Ireland Leinster Sweden Finns
    Quote Originally Posted by V-X View Post
    Unless I have misinterpreted, the French component is found in the present day population but not in the iron age or early middle age populations of Britain. So these migrants carrying French IA ancestry must have arrived after the early middle ages, unless they arrived earlier but for some didnt mix with the existing population and are hidden in the EMA samples. Have I misunderstood something?
    We know from archeology and history that French IA, ie Gaul, was present in Britain. Much of southern England was occupied by “Belgic” tribes, and the Parisi tribe in Yorkshire was thought to have originated in the Paris area. Some tribal names e.g Atrebates are found on both sides of the Channel. There are many other examples of Gauls in Britain
    Y DNA line continued: Z142>Z12222>FGC12378>FGC12401>FGC12384
    35% English, 15% Scottish, 14% Welsh, 14% German, 11% Ulster Scot, 5% Ireland, 3% Scandinavian, 2% French/Dutch, 1% India
    "Nemo est supra leges."

  14. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to MitchellSince1893 For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (06-26-2022),  Anglecynn (06-26-2022),  jadegreg (06-26-2022),  JMcB (06-26-2022),  JonikW (06-26-2022),  Nas (06-26-2022),  Riverman (06-26-2022),  Straboo (06-26-2022),  Tigertim (06-26-2022),  Webb (06-26-2022)

  15. #398
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    7,436
    Sex
    Location
    Groningen
    Ethnicity
    Friso-Saxon
    Nationality
    NL
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-V22
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1bU106/ DF96

    Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    No it is not an outlier. Wealthy people generally have more problems with the inheritance. This is a general demographic problem, that material wealth doesn't necessarily create more offspring. Norman inheritance was peculiar though, because it didn't practise gavelkind as much as others did. But both commoners and aristocrats could be very successful breeders or catastrophic failures, oftentimes just depending on sheer luck - like if the whole family fell victim to a plague or military aggression. Generally speaking, there was some advantage of the wealthy, but I wouldn't overestimate it.
    I guess for the period we are talking about elite migration could have been in smal number still with a major impact. A nice example- I'm really into now- is the entourage c.q. gefolgschaft of the Danish warlord in the ninth century in Friesland. Their number were probably not that big....nevertheless it pops up in the nowadays genetic profile.

    I guess for those times, the early middle ages, meant belonging to the elite a higher survival rate (better food etc) and being a desirable wedding partner. Through this they could leave a significant footprint on a certain genepool.

    See also the Iceland case!
    Last edited by Finn; 06-26-2022 at 04:10 PM.

  16. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Finn For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (06-26-2022),  JMcB (06-26-2022),  JonikW (06-26-2022),  Riverman (06-26-2022),  W‚ldpykjong (06-26-2022)

  17. #399
    Registered Users
    Posts
    94
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b
    mtDNA (M)
    T2b

    England England North of England Cornwall Ireland
    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellSince1893 View Post
    We know from archeology and history that French IA, ie Gaul, was present in Britain. Much of southern England was occupied by ďBelgicĒ tribes, and the Parisi tribe in Yorkshire was thought to have originated in the Paris area. Some tribal names e.g Atrebates are found on both sides of the Channel. There are many other examples of Gauls in Britain
    Of course, but on this chart those people would form part of the British IA and English EMA components. Plus it just doesn't add up, if we are looking at a 75% replacement, how can areas like East Anglia which we know were some of the most heavily colonised by Anglo-Saxons, then have what looks like 35 or 40% French IA surviving from the pre-Roman period. Has to be a later introduction?

    Screenshot_20220625-125120_copy_746x408.png

  18. The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to V-X For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (06-26-2022),  Anglecynn (06-26-2022),  Brittunculi (06-27-2022),  Cartographer (06-26-2022),  JMcB (06-26-2022),  JonikW (06-26-2022),  MitchellSince1893 (06-26-2022),  Ruderico (06-26-2022),  Ryukendo (06-28-2022),  Tigertim (06-26-2022),  tikosg (06-26-2022),  W‚ldpykjong (06-26-2022)

  19. #400
    Registered Users
    Posts
    94
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b
    mtDNA (M)
    T2b

    England England North of England Cornwall Ireland
    Al Murray Comedy Material.png
    Just trying to put together a rough tally of what English genetic history based on developments in the last few years. There hasn't to my knowledge been any paper on the genetic effects of Roman colonisation so it would potentially have to be adjusted for that. Does this add up?

Page 40 of 132 FirstFirst ... 3038394041425090 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 149
    Last Post: 07-02-2022, 05:05 PM
  2. Anglo Saxon Haplogroups and Types
    By BillMC in forum Ancient (aDNA)
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 09-18-2019, 05:23 PM
  3. Anglo-Saxon Tomb
    By spruithean in forum History (Medieval)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-10-2019, 02:42 AM
  4. Anglo Saxon DNA Study.
    By JohnHowellsTyrfro in forum Ancient (aDNA)
    Replies: 76
    Last Post: 08-04-2018, 09:21 AM
  5. I1 from Anglo-Saxon
    By Jean M in forum I1-M253
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-19-2016, 08:52 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •