Upcoming paper on Anglo-Saxon migration period??

[Finn]

Well I admit the quality is substandard, however the crucial bits are plain visible! Enough to warrant a very cautious anthropometric verdict!

Well I can assure you lepto doesn't necessarily means overall gracile

[Token]

Ha that's cool! Thanks! Quite clearly ovoid, mesocephalic and evidently leptoprosopic if repositioned properly. And those eyesockets... missing, but not too rectangular. A rather gracile specimen overall! Not the typical, bulky Anglo-Saxon one would imagine ;-)

Hardly gracile with those massive browridges and very deep nasion depression. Overall seems quite typical for Anglo-Saxons, most of whom looked like overgrown, coarser "Nordics" (Nordic in the old, anthropological sense).

[Roslav]

OK, ok! I was taking the mick a little bit, don't get overexcited ;p As for the browridges - they are not really "massive", come on! Simply present, but then one can hardly find a male skull with no browridges at all... Same goes for nasion - find me a skull without the frontonasal suture lying in a depression, in relation to supraorbital ridges. It's a natural, anatomical feature. One would have to measure the depression first. Otherwise who cares what the dude looked like lol!

PS. I have a high Saxon ancestry but lepto (my case: facial index is: 88.1 that's leptoprosopic)) doesn't means no overall euhm robust features

Anthropometrics is very serious business... One would need to inspect you first!

and this one:

Attachment 53614

Here is a similar U152 map from Phylogeographer (not perfect, I know!):


U152 Phylo.png

There seems to be an interesting concentration in Somerset, Cumbria, Scottish Lowlands, Cork (this holds for several U152 subclades), and to a lesser degree East Anglia.

Interestingly, this sizeable West Country cluster is gone when we go down to R-L2:

L2 Phylo.png

Years ago I had thought maybe the same path for my line, but according to FTDNA Wilder/Shields part ways with Gay at roughly 500CE. Shields and Wilder part ways at 900CE. The Gays think they are Welsh but the heat map shows Devon for that surname and Wilder is concentrated around Berkshire. I then thought my line might be a hold over from the Iron Age, but this area is also in what would end up being Wessex, settled by the Saxon Pirates with their very large, well you know, knives, at least according to Finn.

I think as long as there are subclades like this one under CTS4065:

Attachment 53619

An Anglo-Saxon (or Frankish, or Norman?) contribution for some of the British U152 simply cannot be excluded. Especially for any of those old lineages with long unbroken, solid SNP blocks extending into Bronze Age or 2000 BC and beyond.

[Finn]

Anthropometrics is very serious business... One would need to inspect you first!

Finn Folcwalding the Friso-Saxon king is ready for inspection:



(with thanks to my heritage)

[JonikW]

Danelaw could be a factor as well. And wouldn’t Essex be Saxon?

Are the percentages in these maps the percentage of testers overall who belong to either R-U106 or I1 per county, or the percentage of R-U106 or I1 testers who come from (or more likely trace their lineage to) each county?

I think you're right that the Danelaw will be a smallish but still significant factor. Many of the "Danes" must also have come from families where some members had left for the Anglian areas of England centuries before, so I suppose the general picture holds good in any case. My best guess is that my Y ancestor was among them despite my obsession with the Anglo-Saxon settlements.

I think it's safe to assume that Essex was one of the main areas where people who identified with the two main groupings, Angle and Saxon, mixed and intermarried, regardless of its name. Its geographical position between the heartlands of the two identities will have facilitated that.

[Wâldpykjong]

Finn Folcwalding the Friso-Saxon king is ready for inspection:



(with thanks to my heritage)

King Finn... and Wâldpyk the Anglian warlord! Spot the differences

[JonikW]

Finn Folcwalding the Friso-Saxon king is ready for inspection:



(with thanks to my heritage)

Very convincing. You could have made a formidable yet beneficent warlord back in the day. You missed your natural vocation by being born so late Finn.

[JonikW]

King Finn... and Wâldpyk the Anglian warlord! Spot the differences

You look like you could easily have carved a lucrative territory out for yourself Wâldpyk when others were leaving for England. These are great images.

[Wâldpykjong]

You look like you could easily have carved a lucrative territory out for yourself Wâldpyk when others were leaving for England. These are great images.

I've uploaded some pictures for a laugh on MyHeritage. Finn joined the party soon afterwards

OK, ok! I was taking the mick a little bit, don't get overexcited ;p As for the browridges - they are not really "massive", come on! Simply present, but then one can hardly find a male skull with no browridges at all... Same goes for nasion - find me a skull without the frontonasal suture lying in a depression, in relation to supraorbital ridges. It's a natural, anatomical feature. One would have to measure the depression first. Otherwise who cares what the dude looked like lol!

Prominent brow ridge for an Anglo-Saxon Roslav? Hahaha

[Webb]

Ha that's cool! Thanks! Quite clearly ovoid, mesocephalic and evidently leptoprosopic if repositioned properly. And those eyesockets... missing, but not too rectangular. A rather gracile specimen overall! Not the typical, bulky Anglo-Saxon one would imagine ;-)





There are multiple old subclades under U152, however the issue with many of those subclades is this:

Attachment 53611


Attachment 53612

1000, 2000, even 3000 years without much branching. Hard to say what sort of routes did those Y-chromosomes undertake. Certainly most of the time they did not stray too far away from the source point since quite obviously U152 seems frequent in the upper to middle Danube&Rhine basin, but much less so on the European extremeties - Finland, Russia, Ukraine on one hand. But Iceland, Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Portugal and Spain on the other as well.

Were all these subclades propagated by waves of Proto-Celtic Halstatt/LaTene migrations? Probably a lot, most of them. But then we are often talking 2000-1500 BC here. Some of them could travel in other directions and enter other populations.

It's hard not to see correlation between this map:

Attachment 53613

and this one:

Attachment 53614

I found the Osteological Report on Sed020/S1016:

http://pauldocherty.com/project/an-osteological-report/