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Thread: Upcoming paper on Anglo-Saxon migration period??

  1. #2201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    I have asked Ph2ter to make a umap in G vs C format, with the Saxon samples and that of the members here, go and find yourself if you have G vs C coordinates of course!


    It appears Iím in good company!

    63C6AADC-459E-49F3-8FC9-480FBC856A56.jpeg
    Paper Trail: 42% English, 31.5% Scottish, 12.5% Irish, 6.25% German, 6.25% Sicilian & 1.5% French.
    LDNA(c): Britain & Ireland: 89.3% (51.5% English, 37.8% Scottish & Irish), N.W. Germanic: 7.8%, Europe South: 2.9% (Southern Italy & Sicily)
    BigY 700: I1-Z141 >F2642 >Y3649 >Y7198 (c.385 AD) >Y168300 (c.400 AD) >A13248 (c.860 AD) >A13252 (c.1050 AD) >FT81015 (c.1280 AD) >A13243 (c.1620 AD) >FT80854 (c.1700 AD) >FT80630 (1893 AD).

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  3. #2202
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMcB View Post
    It appears I’m in good company!

    63C6AADC-459E-49F3-8FC9-480FBC856A56.jpeg
    Me and my father too!
    MyHeritage
    North and West European 55.8%
    English 28.5%
    Baltic 11.5%
    Finnish 4.2%
    GENETIC GROUPS Scotland (Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire)

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  5. #2203
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMcB View Post
    It appears I’m in good company!

    63C6AADC-459E-49F3-8FC9-480FBC856A56.jpeg
    How were you able to get a legible version? I can't get it to open a version that doesn't immediately begin to blur. Usually there isn't a problem, just this one.
    R1b>M269>L23>L51>L11>P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833 >S4281>S4268>Z17112>FT354149

    Ancestors: Francis Cooke (M223/I2a2a) b1583; Hester Mahieu (Cooke) (J1c2 mtDNA) b.1584; Richard Warren (E-M35) b1578; Elizabeth Walker (Warren) (H1j mtDNA) b1583;
    John Mead (I2a1/P37.2) b1634; Rev. Joseph Hull (I1, L1301+ L1302-) b1595; Benjamin Harrington (M223/I2a2a-Y5729) b1618; Joshua Griffith (L21>DF13) b1593;
    John Wing (U106) b1584; Thomas Gunn (DF19) b1605; Hermann Wilhelm (DF19) b1635

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  7. #2204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dewsloth View Post
    How were you able to get a legible version? I can't get it to open a version that doesn't immediately begin to blur. Usually there isn't a problem, just this one.
    Try the google drive link Finn posted. The postimg one got compressed.

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  9. #2205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dewsloth View Post
    Thanks! I note almost exactly the same thing happened with the Patterson paper and the same SNP popping up as what turned out to be a false positive as an automated SNP hit for sample I16182:

    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post812507

    It could be that L1199 just isn't a reliable indicator at all. In Alex's L1200+ block, he doesn't use L1199 by that designation, anyway:

    https://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.ph...085&star=false

    Where FTDNA calls the block L1200, Alex calls it R-P312/S116 > DF19/S232 > DF88 > Z17260

    In the Patterson paper, despite the initial L1199 hit, iirc the I16182 sample was called by FTDNA:
    I16182 R-L2 R-M207>M173>M343>L754>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51>P310>L1 51>P312>ZZ11>U152>L2
    My program is set to filter the output to all mutations with positive reads, and their parents, but when I set it to show everything with reads (so it includes all negatives), the output for this sample would be cumbersome to post on here, and too wide to read. So allow me to convey that DF19 is not covered on this sample, and L1199 itself is the only mutation in that block with a read. And I'm afraid the read is negative, along with everything else within DF19 with coverage.

    As for the positive mutation output, yeah the coverage is just desolate. I think theres 1 positive read for P312, but thats the best we have
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    1. Bell beakers were a Finno-Ugric phenomenon spawned by the Kennewick cluster
    2. I'm hungry
    3. R-DF105 formed on the steppe
    4. Timber grave culture started with Halberstadt_LBA, who greeted each other by saying "Hey! I'm Halberstadt_LBA!"
    5. Dyeus Ph2ter was the best outfielder in Red Sox history

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  11. #2206
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheepslayer View Post
    My program is set to filter the output to all mutations with positive reads, and their parents, but when I set it to show everything with reads (so it includes all negatives), the output for this sample would be cumbersome to post on here, and too wide to read. So allow me to convey that DF19 is not covered on this sample, and L1199 itself is the only mutation in that block with a read. And I'm afraid the read is negative, along with everything else within DF19 with coverage.

    As for the positive mutation output, yeah the coverage is just desolate. I think theres 1 positive read for P312, but thats the best we have
    Thanks for the explanation, it's much appreciated. I16385 also failed Teepean's 2x test, so not a big surprise.

    OTOH, I'm still crying over HVN001
    R1b>M269>L23>L51>L11>P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833 >S4281>S4268>Z17112>FT354149

    Ancestors: Francis Cooke (M223/I2a2a) b1583; Hester Mahieu (Cooke) (J1c2 mtDNA) b.1584; Richard Warren (E-M35) b1578; Elizabeth Walker (Warren) (H1j mtDNA) b1583;
    John Mead (I2a1/P37.2) b1634; Rev. Joseph Hull (I1, L1301+ L1302-) b1595; Benjamin Harrington (M223/I2a2a-Y5729) b1618; Joshua Griffith (L21>DF13) b1593;
    John Wing (U106) b1584; Thomas Gunn (DF19) b1605; Hermann Wilhelm (DF19) b1635

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  13. #2207
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMcB View Post
    It appears I’m in good company!

    63C6AADC-459E-49F3-8FC9-480FBC856A56.jpeg
    In walhalla with the Angles

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  15. #2208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bygdedweller View Post
    Are you aware of any tendency for ADMIXTURE to produce rather extreme, exaggerated results in the direction of one particular source against all others? In their table S4.3 I see a lot of strikingly uniform results. I seem to remember seeing this discussed here or on Eurogenes at some point. I agree the technical aspects of this paper was a bit of a letdown and not quite as up to date with recent innovations in the field as I'd have imagined, although I understand that it's a matter of convenience to some degree when handling such a large number of genomes.
    Regarding the f4-stats, you probably saw already that it's based on present day-individuals, so very likely the same cohort of modern Swedes and Norwegians which was used to generate the NOR-component (n=1910). Where those samples are taken from exactly I do not know.
    Quoting you but for anyone who knows the answer.

    I was looking at the supplemental data, in Table S3.5. F4 statistics of the form F4
    I assume a Z score closer to 0.0 mean a better fit?

    For example sample I14535
    Highest negative value is Germany Denmark = -12.094
    Highest positive value is N Ireland Denmark = 1.522
    Closest to zero value is Scotland Denmark = 0.049


    So the Scotland Denmark combo is the best fit because it closest to zero? Just want to make sure I'm reading these charts correctly.
    Y dna branch U152> L2> Z49> Z142> Z150> FGC12378> FGC47869> FGC12401> FGC47875> FGC12384
    80% Brit/Ir-ish
    35% English/14% Welsh/15% Scot/11% Ulster Scot/5% Irish
    14% German/3% Scandi-Finn/2% French & Dutch/1% India
    Be more concerned about seeking the truth than winning an argument.

    Hidden Content

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  17. #2209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    I have asked Ph2ter to make a umap in G vs C format, with the Saxon samples and that of the members here, go and find yourself if you have G vs C coordinates of course!

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/13VQ...ew?usp=sharing

    Thanks for posting. Unlike G25, where I'm normally in close proximity to Finn_Dad (black line between us), in this C v G one I'm actually closer Finn (apex of 2 yellow lines) and Finn_Mom (at other end of bottom yellow line). Black square on right side is Michael_K from North Germany, whom I sometimes plot near on previous plots (don't recall the actual tool used).

    Y dna branch U152> L2> Z49> Z142> Z150> FGC12378> FGC47869> FGC12401> FGC47875> FGC12384
    80% Brit/Ir-ish
    35% English/14% Welsh/15% Scot/11% Ulster Scot/5% Irish
    14% German/3% Scandi-Finn/2% French & Dutch/1% India
    Be more concerned about seeking the truth than winning an argument.

    Hidden Content

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  19. #2210
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellSince1893 View Post
    Quoting you but for anyone who knows the answer.

    I was looking at the supplemental data, in Table S3.5. F4 statistics of the form F4
    I assume a Z score closer to 0.0 mean a better fit?

    For example sample I14535
    Highest negative value is Germany Denmark = -12.094
    Highest positive value is N Ireland Denmark = 1.522
    Closest to zero value is Scotland Denmark = 0.049


    So the Scotland Denmark combo is the best fit because it closest to zero? Just want to make sure I'm reading these charts correctly.
    An f4 statistic will be 0 if Population C (the sample being looked at in the spreadsheet) doesn't have admixture from Population A or B (Scots or Danes), or it has exactly equal admixture from both. I can't remember exactly how but if the value deviates from zero it suggests admixture in the sample from one of those populations. A negative or a positive value indicates which of Population A or B that the sample has admixture from
    Hidden Content
    Things you should know about me:
    1. Bell beakers were a Finno-Ugric phenomenon spawned by the Kennewick cluster
    2. I'm hungry
    3. R-DF105 formed on the steppe
    4. Timber grave culture started with Halberstadt_LBA, who greeted each other by saying "Hey! I'm Halberstadt_LBA!"
    5. Dyeus Ph2ter was the best outfielder in Red Sox history

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