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Thread: L283 Illyrian Remains From Daunia

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    L283 Illyrian Remains From Daunia

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...498v1.full.pdf

    Itís old news by now, but itís worth posting here for informational purposes that L283 Illyrian remains were found amongst the Daunian people in Italy. See link above. Also, there is a Polish individual from southeastern Poland who matches these Illyrian Daunians more closely than any living sample on the YFull YTree.

    https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-CTS8364/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Polska View Post
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...498v1.full.pdf

    It’s old news by now, but it’s worth posting here for informational purposes that L283 Illyrian remains were found amongst the Daunian people in Italy. See link above. Also, there is a Polish individual from southeastern Poland who matches these Illyrian Daunians more closely than any living sample on the YFull YTree.

    https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-CTS8364/
    Good post! Maybe a full J-L283 thread should be started.

    Do you have any more information about this individual?

    Is he more likely to be an old J-L283 which reached Poland during the IE migrations or from Pannonia in pre-Roman antiquity? Or is he more related to the Vlach migrations of the Early Middle Ages?

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    J-L283 higher diversity areas according to phylogeographer's diversity heatmap

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruzmi View Post
    Good post! Maybe a full J-L283 thread should be started.

    Do you have any more information about this individual?

    Is he more likely to be an old J-L283 which reached Poland during the IE migrations or from Pannonia in pre-Roman antiquity? Or is he more related to the Vlach migrations of the Early Middle Ages?
    I have corresponded with him on the L283 Facebook page. He did a WGS test with analysis from YFull and just a few weeks later this Daunian paper with the L283s was released. Talk about good timing. He believes his family has been in Poland for some time, but he’s trying to learn more about his deep ancestry. This CTS8364 branch looks to be too young to be connected to an initial IE migration. I’m guessing it’s a western Balkan branch since it’s under Z597. He could descend from a remnant population left behind in the Balkans or indirectly from Daunia or Balkans via a Roman mediated migration. I’m not sure if his branch is connected with Vlachs or not. Definitely a possibility.

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    Daunians were mixed - it is not easy to assume the J-L283 found among them to be illyrian or native, according to the study they are leaning more towards being native

    We need y dna from 500bc or so western balkans to get closer confirmation of J-L283 being an illyrian line
    Last edited by ShpataEMadhe; 10-25-2021 at 05:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Polska View Post
    I have corresponded with him on the L283 Facebook page. He did a WGS test with analysis from YFull and just a few weeks later this Daunian paper with the L283s was released. Talk about good timing. He believes his family has been in Poland for some time, but he’s trying to learn more about his deep ancestry. This CTS8364 branch looks to be too young to be connected to an initial IE migration. I’m guessing it’s a western Balkan branch since it’s under Z597. He could descend from a remnant population left behind in the Balkans or indirectly from Daunia or Balkans via a Roman mediated migration. I’m not sure if his branch is connected with Vlachs or not. Definitely a possibility.
    BR2 was J-M92 and he came from a cultural context which was fairly close to Poland, centered in Slovakia-Northern Hungary. Whether he was fully of Kyjatice descent or not, since they mostly cremated, that's the context he was assigned to:
    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post810826

    Close by to the South East, also with relations to Poland, was GŠva which is likely to have had E-V13 also, in its paternal variation. I guess not too many would have expected J-M92 that far North and with a Central European profile to have existed, even if it was a minority lineage and probably spread more recently (at that time) from the Aegean. A lot of things are therefore possible, since Lengyel moved up there too early on.

    In any case J-L283 looks like a good candidate for an early Illyrian lineage, but its exact path is still unknown - could have been with Yamnaya or picked up by Yamnaya groups along the Danube.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    BR2 was J-M92 and he came from a cultural context which was fairly close to Poland, centered in Slovakia-Northern Hungary. Whether he was fully of Kyjatice descent or not, since they mostly cremated, that's the context he was assigned to:
    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post810826

    Close by to the South East, also with relations to Poland, was GŠva which is likely to have had E-V13 also, in its paternal variation. I guess not too many would have expected J-M92 that far North and with a Central European profile to have existed, even if it was a minority lineage and probably spread more recently (at that time) from the Aegean. A lot of things are therefore possible, since Lengyel moved up there too early on.

    In any case J-L283 looks like a good candidate for an early Illyrian lineage, but its exact path is still unknown - could have been with Yamnaya or picked up by Yamnaya groups along the Danube.
    BR2 belongs to https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y17946/, which is under Z7671, J-Y17946 has also been found in EBA Arslantepe.
    My Y Line: J2a-L210>Z489>Z482>Y15222>Y15245

    My Maternal Y: R1b-U152>Z36>Y156527

    Great Grandparent (Maternal Grandfather's Mother's line) Y: R1b-U152>L2

    Great Grandparent (Maternal Grandmother's Mother's line) Y: I2-P78>A427>S23612>Y6396

    Other Y lines Confirmed: 3x GG on Maternal: J2a-S25258>SK1336, 3x GG on Maternal: J2a-M67, 4x GG on Maternal: R1b-PF7562, 5x GG on Maternal: E-V13, 5x GG on Maternal: R2-L266, 5x GG on Paternal: E-M183, 5x GG on Maternal: I2-M26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Principe View Post
    BR2 belongs to https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y17946/, which is under Z7671, J-Y17946 has also been found in EBA Arslantepe.
    And in MBA Alalakh:

    ALA120; 1800-1500 BC; Alalakh; Turkey; Alalakh_MLBA; J2a1a1a2b2a-M67>Z1847>Z7671>CTS900>Z7661>Y3020>Y11200>Z30677>Z 30682>Y17946 (xY129013,FGC62187)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Polska View Post
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...498v1.full.pdf

    It’s old news by now, but it’s worth posting here for informational purposes that L283 Illyrian remains were found amongst the Daunian people in Italy. See link above. Also, there is a Polish individual from southeastern Poland who matches these Illyrian Daunians more closely than any living sample on the YFull YTree.

    https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-CTS8364/
    Are you sure? I seem to remember he was closest to the British 1K genomes sample.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pribislav View Post
    And in MBA Alalakh:

    ALA120; 1800-1500 BC; Alalakh; Turkey; Alalakh_MLBA; J2a1a1a2b2a-M67>Z1847>Z7671>CTS900>Z7661>Y3020>Y11200>Z30677>Z 30682>Y17946 (xY129013,FGC62187)
    Are these from the newer Alalakh samples?
    My Y Line: J2a-L210>Z489>Z482>Y15222>Y15245

    My Maternal Y: R1b-U152>Z36>Y156527

    Great Grandparent (Maternal Grandfather's Mother's line) Y: R1b-U152>L2

    Great Grandparent (Maternal Grandmother's Mother's line) Y: I2-P78>A427>S23612>Y6396

    Other Y lines Confirmed: 3x GG on Maternal: J2a-S25258>SK1336, 3x GG on Maternal: J2a-M67, 4x GG on Maternal: R1b-PF7562, 5x GG on Maternal: E-V13, 5x GG on Maternal: R2-L266, 5x GG on Paternal: E-M183, 5x GG on Maternal: I2-M26

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