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Thread: Russians E-V13

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    Depends on which study is more trustworthy, because the numbers from the newer one are higher. If a Russian sample has about 4-6 %, V13 won't fall much below 3-4 %.
    What are the percentages Russian projects got, anyone?
    This study had 1,228 samples. I doubt that there is a study with a higher n which would be make it more reliable.

    A study about Belarus showed similar results:

    Uniparental genetic heritage of belarusians: encounter of rare middle eastern matrilineages with a central European mitochondrial DNA pool



    n=565

    3.01% E-M78. If E-V13 is 2/3 - 3/4 of the total, that amounts to: 2% - 2.6% E-V13

    I doubt that there are studies with higher n = higher representativeness = more reliable results
    Last edited by Bruzmi; 10-28-2021 at 12:43 AM.

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  3. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruzmi View Post
    I'm also certain that because of the population boom in the US, there are certain western African lineages which have numerically more carriers in the US. How does that impact diversity and where their ancestors came from?

    You made a claim about E-V13 and I replied to you with what a study has indicated about E-V13.


    Populations of Transcarpathia and Bukovina on the genetic landscape of surrounding regions (2015)

    Transcarpathia and Bukovina despite some specific peculiarities are more similar to other Ukrainian populations than to the surrounding ethnic groups such as Poles, Slovaks, Hungarians, Romanians, Moldavians and Gagauzes. Ukrainians of Transcarpathia and Bukovina form the entire genetic continuum with the whole Ukraine on maps of gene distances, confirming the homogeneity of Ukrainian parental gene pool and itís differentiation from other groups. After performing the analysis of Y-haplogroup spatial distribution, it is supposed that the northern ridges of Carpathian mountains are the East-European barrier decreasing the gene flow. It decreases the spreading of haplogroups N1c (М178) and R1a (М198) southward and movement of E1b (М78), R1b (М269), J (М304) and G (М201) northward.


    Whether you choose to reply or not to me, the data will remain the same. E-M78 moved from the south to the north.

    What about this study, I suppose their conclusions are highly credible for you also:

    The most prevalent haplogroup in B&H population is by far the sublineage I2a of haplogroup I, with a frequency of 49% in the studied population. According to previous studies, haplogroup I has been thought to originate from the Balkan Peninsula since approximately 45,000 years ago, which corresponds to the time before the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM).
    These results represent an update of earlier preliminary B&H population data and confirm the prediction that Bosnia and Herzegovina can be thought of as the part of the Western Balkan area that served as the Last Glacial Maximum refuge for the Paleolithic human European population.
    source: https://www.researchgate.net/publica..._23_Y-STR_Loci

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  5. #53
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    Данные из Russian Ethnic Project

    R1a-L146 47,18%

    N1a1-M46 17,28%

    I2a1-L460 10,29%

    I1-M253 8,16%

    E1b1b1-M35.1 4,27%

    R1b-M343 4,08%

    J1a2-Z2217 3,11%

    G2a 1,94%

    J2-M172 1,75%

    Q1b-M346 0,97%

    C2a1a3a1e-Y12782 0,19%
    Current statistics for 2021

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  7. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tora_sama View Post
    Данные из Russian Ethnic Project

    R1a-L146 47,18%

    N1a1-M46 17,28%

    I2a1-L460 10,29%

    I1-M253 8,16%

    E1b1b1-M35.1 4,27%

    R1b-M343 4,08%

    J1a2-Z2217 3,11%

    G2a 1,94%

    J2-M172 1,75%

    Q1b-M346 0,97%

    C2a1a3a1e-Y12782 0,19%
    Current statistics for 2021
    Thank you! So it's 4-5 percent E1b1b in Russians, roughly the same level of E-V13 as in Poles. Interesting how low R1b is and J2 significantly lower than E. Would be interesting to see whether I2 ans V13 correlate in many regions or not.

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  9. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bane View Post
    What about this study, I suppose their conclusions are highly credible for you also:




    source: https://www.researchgate.net/publica..._23_Y-STR_Loci
    The results themselves are reliable , the interpretation isn't.

  10. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    Thank you! So it's 4-5 percent E1b1b in Russians, roughly the same level of E-V13 as in Poles. Interesting how low R1b is and J2 significantly lower than E. Would be interesting to see whether I2 ans V13 correlate in many regions or not.
    All m35 is v13??

  11. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Bruzmi View Post
    The results themselves are reliable , the interpretation isn't.
    Only 100 results, cant really say much with that. Based on these results not sure how anyone can suggest j2b l283 is the only line illyrians carried. Bosnia was an important region for illyrians, they wouldnt have been cut down to just 2%

  12. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    Thank you! So it's 4-5 percent E1b1b in Russians, roughly the same level of E-V13 as in Poles. Interesting how low R1b is and J2 significantly lower than E. Would be interesting to see whether I2 ans V13 correlate in many regions or not.
    4-5% is not "roughly the same as Poland" because in Poland:

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruzmi View Post

    Y-Chromosome Genetic Analysis of Modern Polish Population (2020)

    The study presents a full analysis of the Y-chromosome variability of the modern male Polish population. It is the first study of the Polish population to be conducted with such a large set of data (2,705 individuals), which includes genetic information from inhabitants of all voivodeships, i.e., the first administrative level, in the country and the vast majority of its counties, i.e., the second level. In addition, the available data were divided into clusters corresponding to more natural geographic regions.

    The most frequent Y-SNP binary haplogroups in all analyzed samples were found to be R (71.02%), I (15.71%), N (4.29%), E (3.84%), J (3.22%), and G (1.22%). The total contribution of the others, viz. Q, C, T, H, and O, totaled less than 1% (0.70%), and each comprised only individual samples (Table 1).
    E-V13 is not "4-5%" in Russia. We are in a genetics and anthropology forum. I don't think that I have to explain that an academic study which published geographically scaled results of 1,228 samples is a reliable source while geographically random sampling from FTDNA isn't as reliable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruzmi View Post
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...ort=objectonly

    It's actually around ~2.2% for M78 because not all regions have the same sample size. Assuming that E-V13 is between 2/3 and 3/4 of E-M78, the total E-V13 percentage should be between 1.45%-1.65%.

    See how the numbers explain themselves and show a very normal distribution which doesn't require grand population migrations?

    If we crunch the numbers before producing our theories about them, things are much, much easier.
    These are published results from 1,228 samples. These are the reliable results. If you don't want to rely on published results from academic studies is another matter, but the actual figures won't change.


    And they're consistent with results from Belarus too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruzmi View Post
    This study had 1,228 samples. I doubt that there is a study with a higher n which would be make it more reliable.

    A study about Belarus showed similar results:

    Uniparental genetic heritage of belarusians: encounter of rare middle eastern matrilineages with a central European mitochondrial DNA pool



    n=565

    3.01% E-M78. If E-V13 is 2/3 - 3/4 of the total, that amounts to: 2% - 2.6% E-V13
    In total:
    Poland E 3.84%
    Belarus E-M78 3.01%
    Russia E-M78 2.2%

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  14. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShpataEMadhe View Post
    Only 100 results, cant really say much with that. Based on these results not sure how anyone can suggest j2b l283 is the only line illyrians carried. Bosnia was an important region for illyrians, they wouldnt have been cut down to just 2%
    There is not much J-L283 in Bosnia or Croatia. Part of it is a later post-medieval introduction. The latest study in Croatia didn't find any J-L283 from the MBA onwards. This strongly indicates what is quite obvious already: J-L283 wasn't the only haplogroup among Illyrians and in fact others were as significant. Eastern Dardanian Timacum Minus 30% J-L283/30% E-V13/10% R-CTS1450 and other R-M269 clades looks like a plausible distribution to me for Illyrians overall, but we'll see when we get samples from Montenegro and Delmati settlements in western Bosnia.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShpataEMadhe View Post
    All m35 is v13??
    FTDNA results are not academic results and the same is true for every y-dna project.

    Don't get me wrong. I appreciate y-dna groups immensely for the hard work they do. You can rely on groups to learn about where a clade exists, but you can't rely on them for statistical figures because they don't have geographically scaled sampling with a defined size in a controlled research environment. It's a basic fact of statistical research.
    Last edited by Bruzmi; 10-28-2021 at 05:23 PM.

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