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Thread: So North Iran was the homeland of PIE?

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    So North Iran was the homeland of PIE?

    So North Iran was the homeland of PIE?

    https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2021/...-has-gone.html

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    'Academic consensus' can become dangerous imho. Those who think that though, weither they are academics or not should tie it to a specific culture or a set of cutures and propose a timeframe for the expansion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andriy View Post
    So North Iran was the homeland of PIE?

    https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2021/...-has-gone.html
    Eurogenes's article writes exactly the opposite of the title of this thread. And the answer likely is a resounding "no" to this question.
    distance: 0.01753688
    Ancient Greece/Balkans: 48.2
    Early Slavic: 24.6
    RUS_Maykop_Novosvobodnaya: 14.8
    Levant_Megiddo_IA: 9.6
    MAR_Taforalt: 1
    CHN_Chuanyun_Historic: 1.2
    Yoruba: 0.6

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    Quote Originally Posted by RCO View Post
    Yes, I think the incoming new big article is going to document the arrival in the Volga and the steppe.
    Any word of when that is going to be released?

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    If only Yamnas had Iran_N ancestry...

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    I don't understand what the big fuss is all about, the Pontic-Caspian steppe and the Caucasus are literally next to each other, and Iran is just a bit further south. People are too influenced by modern borders (and geopolitical realities), prehistoric people didn't have concepts like 'Europe' and 'Asia' in their minds when they were moving around. Also, saying steppe people "are indigenous to Europe" and at the same time "they had nothing to do with Iran" is disingenuous, Iran was a lot closer to their homeland than Iberia or Britain. I could see an argument for, say, Hungary since it's part of the same steppe eco-region but "indigenous to the whole of Europe" is a nonsensical statement.

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    To my knowledge, Linguistic consensus is still a homeland in the Pontic Steppe. And PIE is a linguistic matter, not a genetic one.

    Quote Originally Posted by peloponnesian View Post
    I don't understand what the big fuss is all about, the Pontic-Caspian steppe and the Caucasus are literally next to each other, and Iran is just a bit further south. People are too influenced by modern borders (and geopolitical realities), prehistoric people didn't have concepts like 'Europe' and 'Asia' in their minds when they were moving around. Also, saying steppe people "are indigenous to Europe" and at the same time "they had nothing to do with Iran" is disingenuous, Iran was a lot closer to their homeland than Iberia or Britain. I could see an argument for, say, Hungary since it's part of the same steppe eco-region but "indigenous to the whole of Europe" is a nonsensical statement.
    Because we are talking of different theories, and different populations.

    Moreover, the reason behind this, from Harvard and Max Planck, lies in an error in the basic assumption for Anatolian Languages. They tried to find a genetic signature for a migration during the IVth millenium even if the general consensus among specialists is an arrival in Anatolia during the IIId millenium (or a diffusion, as proto Anatolian could have been spoken in NW Anatolia, near the Balkans).

    So, since they didn't find Steppe admixture in Anatolia as the result of a IVth millenium migration, they are trying to find another population which is fitting their premises.

    Except that, in doing so, they are making another error, as they are not testing the right people, in the right places and at the right period.

    It is like deducing the absence of Steppe admixture in Hittites, when you are testing Hattians. What a surprise!!! Non IE Hattians don't have Steppe Admixture!

    Yes, it is difficult to find well preserved remains, in the right archeological context. But if you are making errors from the start, and not aknowledge them, you will pill up errors on errors. That is what they are doing.

    Hence the very "strange" conclusion in the Caucasus paper from Wang et al. Trying to save their faces? Because their results are in complete contradiction with their conclusion.
    Last edited by ffoucart; 11-12-2021 at 12:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peloponnesian View Post
    I don't understand what the big fuss is all about, the Pontic-Caspian steppe and the Caucasus are literally next to each other, and Iran is just a bit further south. People are too influenced by modern borders (and geopolitical realities), prehistoric people didn't have concepts like 'Europe' and 'Asia' in their minds when they were moving around. Also, saying steppe people "are indigenous to Europe" and at the same time "they had nothing to do with Iran" is disingenuous, Iran was a lot closer to their homeland than Iberia or Britain. I could see an argument for, say, Hungary since it's part of the same steppe eco-region but "indigenous to the whole of Europe" is a nonsensical statement.
    from a geographical point of view you are right. Any average PIE tribe king would have considered the caucasus as more familiar and "homely" than any EEF village in Iberia or Italy. Here we are talking from a genetic point of view. PIE were mostly ( probably all in fact) made up of mostly indigenous european upper paleolithic ( ANE like) and indigenous mesolithic europeans ( WHG related). That is why any proposed PIE population of the pontic caspian steppe turned out to be till even the calcholothic as only made up of WHG/EHG dna ( obviously in different proportions accordingly to the west/east cline).

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    Even if one part of the CHG ancestry would have been Transcaucasian, which is possible, because just like in Europe, we don't know all regional populations profile yet, this doesn't make PIE Transcaucasian-Iranian. Like just assume that into the lower Don a group of herder-fisher, half-Neolithicised people migrated, which is not proven, but very well possible, they would have been just one element of a mixed local population which transformed into PIE. And even more, the dominant, paternal part, would still be from the local fisher-hunter groups.

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