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Thread: Facial reconstructions of North African peoples.

  1. #21
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    Oh I know we have the DNA of some specimens from the Iberomaurusians and Guanches. It was more of a commentary on reconstructions in general.

    Lets take the Nazlet Khater skeleton for example it showed the strongest affinities with ancient and to a lesser extent iron age individuals from South Africa. It's inner ear structure was similar to UP Europeans and there were some similarities between oase. Another study shows it clusters with early Holocene East Africans. And probably formed part of a population that isn't represented by any extant group. And the reconstruction just looks vaguely Native American or ancient European with straight hair etc? Why does the Aterian individual have wavy hair? In the past there were people that had a combination of traits not found in present day populations. That is hard to reconstruct in this manner and by non scientists.

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  3. #22
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    Capsian skull (EN) from A´n Meterchem Tunis.

    North-West African Y-DNA map: Hidden Content

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  5. #23
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    Another Capsian from Tunis (neolithic):

    North-West African Y-DNA map: Hidden Content

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  7. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamm View Post
    Another Capsian from Tunis (neolithic):
    They are nearly identical, the first being just darker and slightly more SSA. Wonder whether that's based on actual genetic and/or morphological differences.

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  9. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    They are nearly identical, the first being just darker and slightly more SSA. Wonder whether that's based on actual genetic and/or morphological differences.
    I have no idea but the designer of these reconstructions did mention some methods he used, though these 2 skulls are different and from different locations but both from neolithic Tunis belonging to the Capsian culture.
    North-West African Y-DNA map: Hidden Content

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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    They are nearly identical, the first being just darker and slightly more SSA. Wonder whether that's based on actual genetic and/or morphological differences.
    I think it might be accurate ; if I remember correctly some capsian remains had some SSA traits.

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  13. #27
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    Soft tissues and pigmentation ignored, there are several instances of SSA traits in pre-modern Holocene North African specimens. So there might be some truth to it. Would also explain why Chalcolithic North Africans from Southern Europe had non-ANA/non-Taforalt-related African ancestry, in addition to Taforalt ancestry of course.

    As for the location of the A´n Meterchem skeleton, it is actually from the more core region of the Capsian industry, if I am not wrong, between Kasserine and ThÚveste (TÚbessa):
    Carte-de-localisation-des-sites-prehistoriques-ayant-livre-des-restes-humains-dans-le.png
    Last edited by Ignis90; 12-05-2021 at 06:56 PM.
    Paternal Y-DNA haplogroup: E-M35>E-Z827>L19>M81>M183
    Maternal [grandfather] Y-DNA: E-M35>E-Z827>L19>M81>M183>PF2477>PF2546
    Hidden Content

    Lactase Persistence (LP)
    13910: TT (rs4988235 AA)
    22018: AA (rs182549 TT)

    (my mother's LP: same results)

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  15. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ignis90 View Post
    Soft tissues and pigmentation ignored, there are several instances of SSA traits in pre-modern Holocene North African specimens. So there might be some truth to it. Would also explain why Chalcolithic North Africans from Southern Europe had non-ANA/non-Taforalt-related African ancestry, in addition to Taforalt ancestry of course.

    As for the location of the A´n Meterchem skeleton, it is actually from the more core region of the Capsian industry, if I am not wrong, between Kasserine and ThÚveste (TÚbessa):
    Carte-de-localisation-des-sites-prehistoriques-ayant-livre-des-restes-humains-dans-le.png

    I4246 and I15940 the two European North Africans seem to have some sort of Northeast African admixture similar to what is present in Kulubnarti and the Egyptians ( BA Levant + Kenya_PastoralN related admixture) which is probably what is responsible for non-Taforalt African affinity.


    Code:
    Individual Samples
    
    Target: Iberia_Central_CA_Afr:I4246
    Distance: 1.7427% / 0.01742703 | ADC: 0.25x RC
    32.8	Iberia_N
    28.4	Sudan_MA_Kulubnarti
    17.6	MAR_Taforalt
    15.2	MAR_LN
    6.0	Canary_Islands_Guanche
    
    Target: ITA_Sardinia_C_o:I15940
    Distance: 2.3589% / 0.02358862 | ADC: 0.25x RC
    38.0	MAR_Taforalt
    26.2	Iberia_N
    24.2	Sudan_MA_Kulubnarti
    11.2	Levant_PPNC
    0.4	Canary_Islands_Guanche


    Code:
    Averages (Unscaled)
    
    Target: ITA_Sardinia_C_o
    Distance: 1.5351% / 0.01535108 | R5P | ADC: 0.25x RC
    43.6	MAR_Taforalt
    26.0	Bell_Beaker_ITA_o
    13.4	Levant_Yehud_IBA
    9.2	UKR_N_o
    7.8	KEN_Pastoral_N_o
    
    Target: Iberia_Central_CA_Afr
    Distance: 1.3640% / 0.01364018 | R5P | ADC: 0.25x RC
    33.6	ITA_Sardinia_ECA
    25.4	MAR_EN
    18.0	Levant_Yehud_IBA
    11.6	KEN_HyraxHill_2300BP
    11.4	Iberia_Southwest_EN
    
    
    Averages (Scaled) 
    
    
    
    Target: ITA_Sardinia_C_o
    Distance: 2.9902% / 0.02990152 | R5P
    42.0	MAR_Taforalt
    30.2	UKR_N_o
    14.2	Levant_PPNC
    9.6	KEN_Pastoral_N_o
    4.0	UGA_Munsa_500BP
    
    
    Target: Iberia_Central_CA_Afr
    Distance: 2.3520% / 0.02352037 | R5P
    35.8	Iberia_Southwest_EN
    24.0	MAR_EN
    23.4	Levant_PPNC
    10.6	TZA_PN
    6.2	COG_Kindoki_230BP
    Last edited by Mnemonics; 12-06-2021 at 10:44 PM.

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  17. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mnemonics View Post
    I4246 and I15940 the two European North Africans seem to have some sort of Northeast African admixture similar to what is present in Kulubnarti and the Egyptians ( BA Levant + Kenya_PastoralN related admixture) which is probably what is responsible for non-Taforalt African affinity.


    Code:
    Individual Samples
    
    Target: Iberia_Central_CA_Afr:I4246
    Distance: 1.7427% / 0.01742703 | ADC: 0.25x RC
    32.8	Iberia_N
    28.4	Sudan_MA_Kulubnarti
    17.6	MAR_Taforalt
    15.2	MAR_LN
    6.0	Canary_Islands_Guanche
    
    Target: ITA_Sardinia_C_o:I15940
    Distance: 2.3589% / 0.02358862 | ADC: 0.25x RC
    38.0	MAR_Taforalt
    26.2	Iberia_N
    24.2	Sudan_MA_Kulubnarti
    11.2	Levant_PPNC
    0.4	Canary_Islands_Guanche


    Code:
    Averages
    
    Target: ITA_Sardinia_C_o
    Distance: 1.5351% / 0.01535108 | R5P | ADC: 0.25x RC
    43.6	MAR_Taforalt
    26.0	Bell_Beaker_ITA_o
    13.4	Levant_Yehud_IBA
    9.2	UKR_N_o
    7.8	KEN_Pastoral_N_o
    
    Target: Iberia_Central_CA_Afr
    Distance: 1.3640% / 0.01364018 | R5P | ADC: 0.25x RC
    33.6	ITA_Sardinia_ECA
    25.4	MAR_EN
    18.0	Levant_Yehud_IBA
    11.6	KEN_HyraxHill_2300BP
    11.4	Iberia_Southwest_EN

    Interesting indeed, they get way better fits with these east african samples as proxy than with west african, how would that ancestry arrived there? Through green sahara? Because pre-Chalcolithic N. Africans did not have that, nor the EN or LN Moroccan samples.
    North-West African Y-DNA map: Hidden Content

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  19. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamm View Post
    Interesting indeed, they get way better fits with these east african samples as proxy than with west african, how would that ancestry arrived there? Through green sahara? Because pre-Chalcolithic N. Africans did not have that, nor the EN or LN Moroccan samples.

    I think the Levant_BA-like and Kenya_PastoralN related admixture points to admixture from somewhere in Northeast Africa which could mean that these samples are part of some admixed Libyan population that formed as a result of contact with Sudan/Egypt.

    We could also be seeing this admixture as a result migrations of proto-Berber speakers from Northeast Africa (possibly from somewhere along the Nile) during the Chalcolithic.

    Are there any other Chalcolithic North Africans that lack this admixture?
    Last edited by Mnemonics; 12-06-2021 at 10:51 AM.

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