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Thread: Map of ancient Slavic samples

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tora_sama View Post
    Sometimes it is easier to clearly see where and who was found and which haplogroups were found among the ancient Slavs.
    https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer...2430000001&z=5
    I added that I have on hand at the moment, with the appearance of new samples, the map will be updated. To simplify, I marked haplogroups with the same colors as in FTDNA, if samples with different haplogroups were found in one place, then I indicated the color of the predominant one. Places with MT haplogroups only are indicated in a separate color.
    The version in English or with self-translation is still thinking about how to implement.

    If you want to add a sample, then you need to:
    1)Place
    2)Haplogroups
    3)Dating
    4)Link to the source

    Your comments and suggestions will be taken into account, so do not hesitate to write.
    You have some mistakes.
    Sigtuna Viking 24005 - vik_84005
    Sigtuna viking UM160 - vik_URM160
    Some vikings on the map (medieval Sweden) being claimed to be of the Slav origin do not resemble any Slavs ( Database used: Eurogenes G25, 7509 samples).

    Distance to: SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:VIK_URM160
    0.02992356 German_Erlangen:GSM1658664
    0.03079110 German:German23
    0.03249765 Swedish:Sweden11
    0.03285343 Swedish:GSM1884921
    0.03301496 German:German62

    Distance to: VK2020_SWE_Skara_VA:VK397
    0.02539000 German_Erlangen:GSM1658619
    0.02579280 German_Erlangen:GSM1658664
    0.02648436 Ukrainian_Zakarpattia:EG600088
    0.02763327 Polisholish15
    0.02897210 Slovakian:Slovakia118


    Distance to: VK2020_SWE_Gotland_VA:VK64
    0.03200915 German_Erlangen:GSM1658664
    0.03333669 German_Erlangen:GSM1658619
    0.03393152 Polisholish15
    0.03523898 German:German62
    0.03561822 German:German76


    A Lithuanian viking.
    Distance to: VK2020_SWE_Gotland_VA:VK474
    0.02320399 Lithuanian_PA:LTG-173
    0.02744246 Russian_Orel:russianOrjol78
    0.02803634 Russian_Smolensk:Rsm-179
    0.02847276 Ukrainian_Lviv:EG600063
    0.03043361 Ukrainian_Chernihiv:EG600055

    The most remarkable thing for me is that almost all Viking Age Slavs on the map are autosomally close to modern Ukrainian populations.
    Last edited by Fried; 06-30-2022 at 04:04 PM.

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  3. #62
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    I remember how you already tried (03-11-2022, 12:33 AM) to argue with me and this time the same as then. And I gave you the answer back then. I won't waste my time on your posts anymore.
    G25:

    Distance to: VK2020_SWE_Gotland_VA:VK64
    0.03519805 Polish
    0.03850389 Czech
    0.03856017 Sorb_Niederlausitz
    0.03896994 Ukrainian_Rivne
    0.03899479 Slovakian
    0.03930496 German_East
    0.03986678 Swedish
    0.04045977 Ukrainian_Zhytomyr
    0.04338442 Russian_Smolensk
    0.04375907 Lithuanian_PA
    0.04399946 Belarusian
    0.04418530 Cossack_Ukrainian
    0.04440217 Russian_Voronez
    0.04453162 Ukrainian_Chernihiv
    0.04491303 Ukrainian_Dnipro
    0.04511729 Ukrainian_Sumy
    0.04565777 Danish
    0.04583077 Russian_Pskov
    0.04605549 Ukrainian_Lviv
    0.04618703 Russian_Kursk
    0.04697426 Lithuanian_VA
    0.04758688 Russian_Kaluga
    0.04763383 Russian_Belgorod
    0.04770831 Estonian
    0.04771726 Russian_Orel

    Distance to: VK2020_SWE_Skara_VA:VK397
    0.02641176 Polish
    0.02855788 Ukrainian_Rivne
    0.03066943 Slovakian
    0.03071111 Ukrainian_Zhytomyr
    0.03108347 Sorb_Niederlausitz
    0.03170476 Ukrainian_Dnipro
    0.03197030 Lithuanian_PA
    0.03253334 Ukrainian_Chernihiv
    0.03317739 Russian_Voronez
    0.03326190 Russian_Kursk
    0.03392433 Russian_Smolensk
    0.03403668 Belarusian
    0.03418738 Russian_Pskov
    0.03454695 Cossack_Ukrainian
    0.03495664 Lithuanian_VA
    0.03507540 Russian_Orel
    0.03523436 Russian_Belgorod
    0.03536968 Ukrainian_Sumy
    0.03589051 Russian_Ryazan
    0.03614550 Russian_Tver
    0.03628735 Russian_Kaluga
    0.03712701 Czech
    0.03835439 Estonian
    0.03926671 Ukrainian_Lviv
    0.04047905 Russian_Yaroslavl

    Distance to: VK2020_SWE_Gotland_VA:VK474
    0.03028804 Lithuanian_PA
    0.03078128 Ukrainian_Rivne
    0.03117025 Lithuanian_VA
    0.03297902 Ukrainian_Chernihiv
    0.03326560 Sorb_Niederlausitz
    0.03398986 Ukrainian_Zhytomyr
    0.03458620 Polish
    0.03482369 Belarusian
    0.03567197 Russian_Pskov
    0.03580648 Lithuanian_RA
    0.03652714 Russian_Voronez
    0.03697973 Russian_Smolensk
    0.03702679 Ukrainian_Dnipro
    0.03758787 Russian_Belgorod
    0.03780736 Ukrainian_Sumy
    0.03789608 Cossack_Ukrainian
    0.03795943 Russian_Kursk
    0.03825925 Slovakian
    0.04026872 Russian_Orel
    0.04058150 Russian_Kaluga
    0.04193561 Lithuanian_VZ
    0.04195358 Russian_Ryazan
    0.04199718 Lithuanian_SZ
    0.04245053 Russian_Tver
    0.04450316 Ukrainian_Lviv
    Last edited by Tora_sama; 07-01-2022 at 05:20 AM.

  4. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tora_sama View Post
    I remember how you already tried (03-11-2022, 12:33 AM) to argue with me and this time the same as then. And I gave you the answer back then. I won't waste my time on your posts anymore.
    Very interesting. Your results are based on the averaged database. My results are based on the non-averaged database. To use averaged databases is very convenient but this artificial sources made of several different samples do not reflect real approximations to modern peoples. Either it would be appropriate to use an averaged Viking sample as a target to have a fair and appropriate analysis - averaged target/averaged sources or non-averaged target/non-averaged sources. For non-averaged samples I use non-averaged sources. That's why the guys who are closer to the Poles in your averaged database are closer to the Germans in mine non-averaged one.
    And the use of non-averaged databases gives more accurate results.
    For example, in the non-averaged database the aproximation is 0.03200915 generations,
    Distance to: VK2020_SWE_Gotland_VA:VK64 (non-averaged sources)
    0.03200915 German_Erlangen:GSM1658664
    when there are only 0.03519805 generations in the averaged one.
    Distance to: VK2020_SWE_Gotland_VA:VK64 (averaged sources)
    0.03519805 Polish
    The same with VK397 and VK474
    Distance to: VK2020_SWE_Skara_VA:VK397(non-averaged sources)
    0.02539000 German_Erlangen:GSM1658619

    Distance to: VK2020_SWE_Skara_VA:VK397(averaged sources)
    0.02641176 Polish

    Distance to: VK2020_SWE_Gotland_VA:VK474 (non-averaged)
    0.02320399 Lithuanian_PA:LTG-173

    Distance to: VK2020_SWE_Gotland_VA:VK474 (averaged)
    0.03028804 Lithuanian_PA
    And again, the non-averaged database gives closer approximation then the non-averaged one.

    One more question.
    VK474 is closer to Lithuanians (they are not Slavs) not only in terms of the non-averaged database, but even in terms of your averaged one. Why did you include this Lietuvis Viking in your Slavic map?

    Distance to: VK2020_SWE_Gotland_VA:VK474 (averaged)
    0.03028804 Lithuanian_PA
    Last edited by Fried; 07-01-2022 at 12:32 PM.

  5. #64
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    The second part of the article is about medieval Yaroslavl.

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  7. #65
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    In your first post you wrote
    Your comments and suggestions will be taken into account, so do not hesitate to write.
    but when you get some criticism, you start ignoring any point of view differing from yours.
    Summarizing everything written earlier, my conclusion about your research methods reflected in your map and your answers is that these methods are similar to typical Slavophilism, that is, introducing obviously non-Slavic samples as the Slavs in order to visually increase the quantity and political role of the Slavs in the Viking Epoch.
    Last edited by Fried; 07-29-2022 at 12:40 PM.

  8. #66
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    You still won't calm down. In my opinion, I answered your claims quite clearly and clearly, and no one but you had any questions for me. I understand what your problem is. There is a wonderful proverb in the Russian language "I look into a book and see emptiness." I don't mind criticizing the case, but that's not what your case is about. And yes, I do not suffer from vikingophilia, nor do I try to wind up more Slavs, I am for the truth. The last sentence is generally poorly understood, if you don't like the historical role of the Slavs, and the fact that they "unexpectedly" could travel)

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  10. #67
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    I am not a Slavophob and I can agree (after some calculations of course) that VK64 and VK397 autosomally are related to the Poles and you are right in their case, but what to say about VK474 when he is obviously related to the Lithuanians because they are his closest approximation?

  11. #68
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    Lithuanians are closely related to Poles. Many Lithuanians look genetically like Poles and many Poles like Lithuanians.

  12. #69
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    It's because there are some populations in Poland historically related to the Baltic tribes - for example, Sudovia and since the Medievality everyone there mixed with the Poles though may be there are still unmixed Sudovians in some distant villages. All modern nations are of mixed ancestry (except geographically isolated ones) unlike earlier populations which were more homogenous.
    Last edited by Fried; 07-30-2022 at 09:59 AM.

  13. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fried View Post
    It's because there are some populations in Poland historically related to the Baltic tribes - for example, Sudovia and since the Medievality everyone there mixed with the Poles though may be there are still unmixed Sudovians in some distant villages. All modern nations are of mixed ancestry (except geographically isolated ones) unlike earlier populations which were more homogenous.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilnius_Region

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