Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 39

Thread: Help with the French genetic profile (Norman vs Aquitaine vs Flanders, etc)

  1. #21
    Registered Users
    Posts
    508
    Sex
    Location
    NL
    Ethnicity
    European
    Nationality
    Dutch
    aDNA Match (1st)
    ENG IA I11991
    aDNA Match (2nd)
    SWE VA VK266
    aDNA Match (3rd)
    ENG IA I12412
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b>U152>Z56>S1523*
    mtDNA (M)
    U5a1c
    mtDNA (P)
    H3g

    Netherlands France Belgium Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by JCave View Post
    Attachment 48040

    Here are my matches from MyHeritage, not as much from France.
    I think it's actually still quite some, considering French don't really test as much and you come from a diaspora.

    @0.01633389
    ___________

    61.0 Germanic
    ------------------
    28.8 Gaulish
    ------------------
    10.2 Roman

  2. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Kellebel For This Useful Post:

     boilermeschew827 (01-15-2022),  JCave (01-15-2022),  jstephan (01-15-2022),  xerxez (01-15-2022)

  3. #22
    Registered Users
    Posts
    26
    Sex
    Location
    Republic of West Florida
    Nationality
    American
    aDNA Match (1st)
    SWE_Skara-VK42
    aDNA Match (2nd)
    England_LIA-I19870
    aDNA Match (3rd)
    England_MIA-I17016
    Y-DNA (P)
    J2-L70>Y213713

    United States of America Andalucia Scotland East Anglia France Bourgogne
    Quote Originally Posted by Andour View Post
    Removing from the French "Academic" list those samples that traditionally overlap with the British Isles, and setting them 'against' the Irish, Scottish and English averages, this is what I get:

    Target: JCave_scaled -- Distance: 2.1841% / 0.02184110

    59.8 Irish
    20.8 72_Sarthe
    13.6 67_Bas-Rhin
    5.8 17_Charente-Maritime

    Bear in mind that if you have ancestors from Normandy and/or Brittany, they are probably partly included in the Irish.
    Thank you Andour, but I am very new to PCA charts... what is this telling me?
    Last edited by JCave; 01-15-2022 at 01:02 AM.

  4. #23
    Registered Users
    Posts
    677
    Sex
    Location
    Western France
    Nationality
    French
    Y-DNA (P)
    I-Y13432

    France
    I tried to model you with some French Canadian samples I have (they have a specific pattern although coming from various parts of France) , and using Yoruba as a generic SSA proxy, and North Amerindian average available on the G25. Here you go, with and without Irish, distances are "correct"


    Target: JCave_scaled
    Distance: 1.7556% / 0.01755587
    80.2 Welsh
    16.2 1000_Quebec
    2.4 Amerindian_North
    1.2 Yoruba

    Target: JCave_scaled
    Distance: 1.6614% / 0.01661418
    59.6 Irish
    26.6 1000_Quebec
    10.4 Welsh
    2.0 Amerindian_North
    1.4 Yoruba

  5. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to jstephan For This Useful Post:

     Andour (01-15-2022),  JCave (01-15-2022),  Kellebel (01-15-2022),  xerxez (01-15-2022)

  6. #24
    Registered Users
    Posts
    26
    Sex
    Location
    Republic of West Florida
    Nationality
    American
    aDNA Match (1st)
    SWE_Skara-VK42
    aDNA Match (2nd)
    England_LIA-I19870
    aDNA Match (3rd)
    England_MIA-I17016
    Y-DNA (P)
    J2-L70>Y213713

    United States of America Andalucia Scotland East Anglia France Bourgogne
    Quote Originally Posted by jstephan View Post
    I tried to model you with some French Canadian samples I have (they have a specific pattern although coming from various parts of France) , and using Yoruba as a generic SSA proxy, and North Amerindian average available on the G25. Here you go, with and without Irish, distances are "correct"


    Target: JCave_scaled
    Distance: 1.7556% / 0.01755587
    80.2 Welsh
    16.2 1000_Quebec
    2.4 Amerindian_North
    1.2 Yoruba

    Target: JCave_scaled
    Distance: 1.6614% / 0.01661418
    59.6 Irish
    26.6 1000_Quebec
    10.4 Welsh
    2.0 Amerindian_North
    1.4 Yoruba
    Thanks so much.... I think that matches a lot of my paper tree. The Welsh and Irish being a British Isles mixture as a Southern US native. Probably the second scenario with 26.6 Quebec is the closest to what I would have on paper.

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to JCave For This Useful Post:

     jstephan (01-15-2022)

  8. #25
    Registered Users
    Posts
    434
    Sex
    Location
    49% Nord France, 18% Bretagne/Basse Normandie, 16% Pologne, 9% Allemagne/Alsace, 7% Hte Normandie
    Ethnicity
    French, Polish and German
    aDNA Match (1st)
    ITA_Collegno_MA:CL63
    aDNA Match (2nd)
    VK2020_DNK_Langeland_VA:VK363
    aDNA Match (3rd)
    VK2020_DNK_Jutland_VA:VK329
    Y-DNA (P)
    I-M72
    mtDNA (M)
    H6a1a

    France Normandie France Bretagne Poland
    Quote Originally Posted by JCave View Post
    Attachment 48040

    Here are my matches from MyHeritage, not as much from France.
    Among these French matches, for those who have longest dna segments shared with you, it would be interesting to see what regional groups they get on Myheritage and/or which geographical places hey have in their genealogical trees, for those who have one

  9. #26
    Registered Users
    Posts
    405
    Sex
    Location
    Auvergne, France
    Ethnicity
    "Arvern"
    Nationality
    French
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-L2-DF103-FT21550
    mtDNA (M)
    H1bm

    European Union France
    Quote Originally Posted by JCave View Post
    Thank you Andour, but I am very new to PCA charts... what is this telling me?
    If you consider that the PCA I joined roughly mirrors the map of France, the Sarthe and Charente percentages could stand in for your non-Breton ancestry along the Bay of Biscay, with Charente being a bit more southern and potentially representing your Aquitaine fraction. If I remember correctly, the port of La Rochelle significantly contributed to migrations to Canada at some point. (I even fortuitously came across a third-generation Charentais once in a place called Bourbonnais some miles south of Chicago). The Bas-Rhin could stand for your Bourgogne, though it suggests that your ancestry in those parts may have been a little bit more eastern than just Bourgogne - unless it is used by the software to give a slightly more germanic twist to the whole picture, and shift the Irish center of gravity towards a "more English" zone. That's the best I can do for now - I'm far from being what you'd call an expert myself.
    Immi uiros rios toutias rias
     
    ___ Paper trail since 1550 : 100% South Auvergne, France ___
    Distance: 1.510% : 50.0 German , 50.0 Spanish Castilla .... Distance: 1.453% : 50.4 Swiss German , 49.6 Spanish Barcelona
    Distance: 1.659% : 50.2 Scottish , 49.8 French Corsica...... Distance: 1.714% : 50.8 Italian Lombardy , 49.2 French Brittany
    Distance: 1.959% : 50.8 Irish , 49.2 Italian Tuscany ......... Distance: 2.189% : 50.8 Dutch , 49.2 Basque French

  10. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Andour For This Useful Post:

     boilermeschew827 (01-15-2022),  JCave (01-15-2022),  jstephan (01-15-2022),  xerxez (01-15-2022)

  11. #27
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    7,961
    Sex
    Location
    Normandy
    Ethnicity
    northwesterner
    aDNA Match (1st)
    VK245 Sandoy Faroe islands early medieval
    aDNA Match (2nd)
    I21275 England Middle Iron Age
    aDNA Match (3rd)
    I19874 England Middle Iron Age
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-BY3604-Z275
    mtDNA (M)
    H5a1
    Y-DNA (M)
    I-M253
    mtDNA (P)
    K1c1c

    Normandie Orkney Netherlands Friesland East Frisia Finland
    Out of curiosity I used for my mum the Orcadian and Shetlandic sources and added the Normand samples from "Explore". Here is what I got:

    Target: mom
    Distance: 1.4293% / 0.01429269
    47.8 Orcadian
    39.6 50_Manche
    12.6 Shetlandic

    So in short '40% Normandy + 60% Isles' in place of '75% Normandy + 25% Isles' that would be expected on a genealogical basis. If I add the Scottish samples the Normand coefficient remains the same:

    Target: mom
    Distance: 1.2639% / 0.01263947
    38.6 50_Manche
    31.6 Scottish
    23.0 Orcadian
    6.8 Shetlandic
    MyHeritage
    North and West European 55.8%
    English 28.5%
    Baltic 11.5%
    Finnish 4.2%
    GENETIC GROUPS Scotland (Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire)

  12. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to anglesqueville For This Useful Post:

     Helgenes50 (01-15-2022),  JMcB (01-15-2022),  jstephan (01-15-2022),  xerxez (01-15-2022)

  13. #28
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    2,704
    Sex
    Location
    Brittany
    Ethnicity
    NW European
    Y-DNA (P)
    I-L813 >Y36690
    mtDNA (M)
    H3s
    mtDNA (P)
    H3s

    Normandie France Bretagne
    Quote Originally Posted by anglesqueville View Post
    Out of curiosity I used for my mum the Orcadian and Shetlandic sources and added the Normand samples from "Explore". Here is what I got:

    Target: mom
    Distance: 1.4293% / 0.01429269
    47.8 Orcadian
    39.6 50_Manche
    12.6 Shetlandic

    So in short '40% Normandy + 60% Isles' in place of '75% Normandy + 25% Isles' that would be expected on a genealogical basis. If I add the Scottish samples the Normand coefficient remains the same:

    Target: mom
    Distance: 1.2639% / 0.01263947
    38.6 50_Manche
    31.6 Scottish
    23.0 Orcadian
    6.8 Shetlandic
    When we see such results, we can regret once again, not to have G25 coordinates of individuals from Val De Saire (ex Sarnes). This could also show that Normandy is not so homogeneous, even in the Cotentin Peninsula
    Recent Ancestry, full Normand. Known Genealogy 7/8 of the Cotentin peninsula 1/8 region of Coutances. Unfortunately, there are many missing branches on the maternal side.

  14. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Helgenes50 For This Useful Post:

     anglesqueville (01-15-2022),  JMcB (01-15-2022),  jstephan (01-15-2022),  Kellebel (01-15-2022),  xerxez (01-15-2022)

  15. #29
    Registered Users
    Posts
    26
    Sex
    Location
    Republic of West Florida
    Nationality
    American
    aDNA Match (1st)
    SWE_Skara-VK42
    aDNA Match (2nd)
    England_LIA-I19870
    aDNA Match (3rd)
    England_MIA-I17016
    Y-DNA (P)
    J2-L70>Y213713

    United States of America Andalucia Scotland East Anglia France Bourgogne
    Quote Originally Posted by Andour View Post
    If you consider that the PCA I joined roughly mirrors the map of France, the Sarthe and Charente percentages could stand in for your non-Breton ancestry along the Bay of Biscay, with Charente being a bit more southern and potentially representing your Aquitaine fraction. If I remember correctly, the port of La Rochelle significantly contributed to migrations to Canada at some point. (I even fortuitously came across a third-generation Charentais once in a place called Bourbonnais some miles south of Chicago). The Bas-Rhin could stand for your Bourgogne, though it suggests that your ancestry in those parts may have been a little bit more eastern than just Bourgogne - unless it is used by the software to give a slightly more germanic twist to the whole picture, and shift the Irish center of gravity towards a "more English" zone. That's the best I can do for now - I'm far from being what you'd call an expert myself.
    I think your model is very close. Many French colonials sailed from La Rochelle to North America. In some records, La Rochelle is listed as their birthplace but it is just their point of origin from France, not necessarily where they were born. As far as Burgogne, that makes sense too as an area of my paper tree which I am currently researching, it seems that I do have some German ancestry from Bavaria and Wurttemburg.

    I really appreciate this insight.

  16. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to JCave For This Useful Post:

     Andour (01-15-2022),  xerxez (01-15-2022)

  17. #30
    Registered Users
    Posts
    434
    Sex
    Location
    49% Nord France, 18% Bretagne/Basse Normandie, 16% Pologne, 9% Allemagne/Alsace, 7% Hte Normandie
    Ethnicity
    French, Polish and German
    aDNA Match (1st)
    ITA_Collegno_MA:CL63
    aDNA Match (2nd)
    VK2020_DNK_Langeland_VA:VK363
    aDNA Match (3rd)
    VK2020_DNK_Jutland_VA:VK329
    Y-DNA (P)
    I-M72
    mtDNA (M)
    H6a1a

    France Normandie France Bretagne Poland
    Quote Originally Posted by JCave View Post
    Attachment 48040

    Here are my matches from MyHeritage, not as much from France.
    If we compare your number of matches per country to the average of some UK and US members (see this thread: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....y-locations-of -DNA-Matches), French are indeed overrepresented (2,4 times more). But matches from northern European countries in general are overrepresented among your matches, especially Finns.



    It would be interesting to look at the countries that stand out among the matches that have a significant shared segment length.
    Last edited by xerxez; 01-15-2022 at 05:43 PM.

  18. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to xerxez For This Useful Post:

     boilermeschew827 (01-15-2022),  JCave (01-15-2022),  jstephan (01-15-2022)

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Genetic profile of the first West Eurasian farmers
    By talljimmy0 in forum Ancient (aDNA)
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 12-23-2021, 08:09 PM
  2. [split] The Aryans: Autonym & Genetic Profile
    By Coldmountains in forum Linguistics
    Replies: 94
    Last Post: 05-13-2021, 04:05 PM
  3. Replies: 20
    Last Post: 07-25-2020, 01:26 PM
  4. Norman/French input into England since 1066
    By Molfish in forum Western
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11-15-2018, 04:48 PM
  5. Norman/French/Crusader genes in Lebanese Muslims?
    By Sikeliot in forum Open-Source Projects
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 03-10-2016, 02:17 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •