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Thread: Modelling Egyptian ancestry

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by chocrafter View Post
    What does the need of a Levantine proxy mean? islamic conquest associated admixture?
    Part of it
    Qpadm results

    55.5% Guanche
    32.9% Lebanon_MBA
    11.6% Kindoki.

    MA model individuals
    Target: me
    Distance: 1.2692% / 0.01269249
    63.0 Canary_Islands_Guanche
    17.4 Syrian_MA
    10.0 Levant_LBN_MA
    9.6 Kindoki_230BP

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gentica277282 View Post
    Part of it
    It could also just be geography, modern copts originating mainly in middle-upper egypt would lack it due to their location, what would it be in that case though?

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by chocrafter View Post
    It could also just be geography, modern copts originating mainly in middle-upper egypt would lack it due to their location, what would it be in that case though?
    We would have to wait until more samples are discovered. I’m still surprised they haven’t found Arabian hunter gathers or any sort of ancient Arabian dna
    Qpadm results

    55.5% Guanche
    32.9% Lebanon_MBA
    11.6% Kindoki.

    MA model individuals
    Target: me
    Distance: 1.2692% / 0.01269249
    63.0 Canary_Islands_Guanche
    17.4 Syrian_MA
    10.0 Levant_LBN_MA
    9.6 Kindoki_230BP

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  5. #124
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    Guys wouldn't it possible that copts had mixed with people prior to the Islamic entrance? We are acting like copts have been the same thing for 5000 years. Are we factoring in nabataeans? Arab Christian tribes? Amorites? Other west Asian groups? I find it hard to believe that we are the exact same since the old dynasty or older. Egypt would have attracted people from so many places. We are only as pure as the last 1500 years only. I'm no expert but I just cannot wrap my head around it.

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  7. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by lifeisdandy View Post
    Guys wouldn't it possible that copts had mixed with people prior to the Islamic entrance? We are acting like copts have been the same thing for 5000 years. Are we factoring in nabataeans? Arab Christian tribes? Amorites? Other west Asian groups? I find it hard to believe that we are the exact same since the old dynasty or older. Egypt would have attracted people from so many places. We are only as pure as the last 1500 years only. I'm no expert but I just cannot wrap my head around it.
    I don't believe anybody has claimed copts are the same over the dynastic period, we know for a fact that Iran-Chl ancestry is something that was intrusive to Egypt considering it starts to appear in the Chalcolithic period in the levant, so I expect that to be the biggest change in the Dynastic period. However, what we can say is that based on Egyptian genomes we currently have from the late period approx 2600 years ago, Copts are essentially a two way mix between Late period Egyptians and Christian Nubians. Arab Christian tribes had almost no impact, unless they somehow time travelled to before Christianity began and admixed with those late period Egyptian samples.

    I would probably venture a guess based on the data we have now from the region, that Copts are going to be very similar to New Kingdom Egyptians and will derive the majority of their ancestry from them, I would probably further venture that the typical Coptic genotype is something that is born so to speak during the Middle Kingdom era with the influx of Asiatics, with it being a gradual admix process starting from the late Old Kingdom period and continuing on until the end of the dynastic era. Even then though, its not like total replacement took place, there will still be a large amount of Old Kingdom type ancestry in Middle & New Kingdom Egyptians.

    Given enough time, no ethnic group on the planet is "pure" as humans did move around considerably and large scale technological leaps like the Neolithic revolution or advanced metal working seem to have been usually accompanied by admixture events, but nobody on this thread has claimed that we are "pure" or untouched representatives of OK or older Egyptians. All I tried to do when creating this thread, is model our ancestry based on the current ancient samples we have & based on that, there hasn't been signficiant admixture except for with Nubians in the past 2500~ years or so.

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  9. #126
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    Some more data, this time analyzing MtDNA of Egyptians. Here is the mitochondrial haplogroups for 327 Egyptian individuals from the Egyptian Genome project.



    Using the same format & thanks to the updated 23andme Coptic component, here is the MtDNA of a total of 278 Copts that I match with on 23andme, who all score 90%+ Coptic on 23andme. I have used the same format as the above.I have removed all doubles.

    Untitled.jpg

    Here are the numbers:

    H 21.94%
    T 15.83%
    U 14.75%
    R 10.43%
    L 10.07%
    M 9.71%
    N 6.47%
    J 5.04%
    K 3.96%
    I 1.08%
    W 0.36%
    X 0.36%
    Last edited by nee4speed111; 02-02-2022 at 07:42 AM.

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  11. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kale View Post
    It shouldn't be too surprising, some of the Taforalt guys are pre-M78, a close relative to European V13. We haven't found V13 or L618 in Anatolian farmers yet but surely it was there in at least small numbers.
    All of the Anatolian farmers (except Boncuklu) show some level of ANA. Oddly enough one of the clearest demonstrations is by using ZlatyKun, who is pretty much equally related to all Eurasians except those with ANA ancestry.

    Somewhat off topic but with the possibility of most West Eurasian populations having some degree of African ancestry (ANA/AEA), does this essentially weaken the idea of a Basal Eurasian lineage contributing to ancient and Modern West Eurasians, or even existing in the first place?
    Cause from the way I understood it Basal Eurasian ancestry was suppose to explain the depressed Neanderthal ancestry in later ancient West Eurasian remains compared to earlier ones. They're also supposedly basal to both West and Eastern non Africans. But remains such Zlaty Kun, who also is basal to both West and Eastern non Africans show no special relationship with the Basal Eurasian ancestry carried by ancient and modern West Eurasian populations.

    So could it be that there were multiple kinds of "Basal Eurasians" or is what we call Basal Eurasian all just an artifact of later African admixture?

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  13. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kale View Post
    It shouldn't be too surprising, some of the Taforalt guys are pre-M78, a close relative to European V13. We haven't found V13 or L618 in Anatolian farmers yet but surely it was there in at least small numbers.
    All of the Anatolian farmers (except Boncuklu) show some level of ANA. Oddly enough one of the clearest demonstrations is by using ZlatyKun, who is pretty much equally related to all Eurasians except those with ANA ancestry.
    They seem to have received their ANA as part of the Levantine admixture that differentiates Barcin from Boncuklu_N. Boncuklu_N.SG seems to either pre-date or entirely avoided this extra Levantine admixture which seems to be present in all the EEF populations.

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  15. #129
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    Coptic Egyptian
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    T2b - Tara

    Quote Originally Posted by nee4speed111 View Post
    Some more data, this time analyzing MtDNA of Egyptians. Here is the mitochondrial haplogroups for 327 Egyptian individuals from the Egyptian Genome project.



    Using the same format & thanks to the updated 23andme Coptic component, here is the MtDNA of a total of 278 Copts that I match with on 23andme, who all score 90%+ Coptic on 23andme. I have used the same format as the above.I have removed all doubles.

    Untitled.jpg

    Here are the numbers:

    H 21.94%
    T 15.83%
    U 14.75%
    R 10.43%
    L 10.07%
    M 9.71%
    N 6.47%
    J 5.04%
    K 3.96%
    I 1.08%
    W 0.36%
    X 0.36%
    Mine is T2b. It's a mesopotamian/west Asian lineage but quite popular for copts as per the chart. Thank you for this!

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