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Thread: New DNA Papers - General Discussion Thread

  1. #2231
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    The short stature of Saami must be an adaptation to the cold climate. In general, arctic people are stocky and have short legs. Similarly, Saami are shorter because they tend to have shorter legs. This shows that their genes are influenced by selection and reflect ancient adaptation to their environment.
    Last edited by Kristiina; 07-05-2019 at 05:08 AM.

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  3. #2232
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    Just skimmed through the new paper from Pagani's team:

    While this mixed ancestry component likely reached Ethiopia only within the last 3,000 years, these results should not be interpreted as involving a direct connection or descent line between Neolithic Anatolia and Ethiopia. Instead, these results can potentially be seen as informative for the identification of candidates among the available ancient and modern populations which, following geographic and chronological considerations, may be suitable proxies for one or more populations that mediated the Eurasian gene flow to East Africa. Of the ones analyzed here, Minoans and Tunisian Jews seem to provide the two closest matches to NAF, adding on top of the genetic evidence a criteria of space/time compatibility. A tentative links between these three groups may be provided by the maritime trade routes connecting Crete (home to the Minoan culture) to the Levant and by the shuffling role played by a horde of nomads who navigated throughout the Mediterranean Sea 3 kya: the Sea People. These tribes left traces of their passage both in Crete, in Anatolia, when they fought the Hittite Empire and in Egypt and the Levant, and are told to have settled in the land of Canaan, known also as Palestine. Interestingly, among those tribes that settled in Palestine there were: Denyen, Tjeker and Peleset. Although there are different theories around the origin of each of the tribes, there are suggestions that link the Denyen with the tribe of Dan, from which Jews from Ethiopia have been said to descend and Peleset to their neighboring Philistines. The role of Sea People may therefore be crucial in explaining a temporary presence of a Minoan-like ancestry in the Levant, bringing Anatolian-like components to levels as high as 85%. A pulse of populations with Anatolian-rich ancestry has just been recently detected in Iron Age Levant, appearing and disappearing from the archaeological record within a range of few centuries. Our results offer a solution to this disappearance, given that their signal may have become erased as a consequence of major warfare after 1000 BCE, bringing these genetic components towards Ethiopia and North Africa.
    Did they really just derive the Eurasian ancestry of Ethiopians from the Sea Peoples, while simultaneously ignoring the ancient DNA coming out of Reich's lab demonstrating significant Eurasian ancestry in early Kenyan pastoralists? For how long is this group going to keep presenting highly implausible models of Ethiopian ancestry?

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  5. #2233
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    No kidding. Some academics seem to have no common sense. The idea that West Eurasian ancestry in Horners is only 3000 years old is also laughable.
    Ελευθερία ή θάνατος.

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  7. #2234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michalis Moriopoulos View Post
    No kidding. Some academics seem to have no common sense. The idea that West Eurasian ancestry in Horners is only 3000 years old is also laughable.
    I think they are messing up the Ethiosemitic migration of ~3 kya with the Cushitic migration of ~6 kya.

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  9. #2235
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    Quote Originally Posted by NetNomad View Post
    I think they are messing up the Ethiosemitic migration of ~3 kya with the Cushitic migration of ~6 kya.
    Their models are actually getting worse with time. This new alleged association with the Sea Peoples actually makes Pagani's previous association of all East African Eurasian ancestry with 3 kya Ethiosemites seem highly plausible by comparison. It's getting quite embarrassing.

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  11. #2236
    This lines up well with Memnon's Trojan lineage, and fits reasonably with the fact that E-V1515 and E-V32 are essentially backmutated E-V13 from Minoan and Lydians. I mean, E-V13 isn't called alpha cluster E-M78 for no reason.

    I guess this also explains why every second Habesha man is called Petros and Teodros.

    Nonetheless - I am quite interested in this phenomenon of actual Ethio-Greeks. From the half-Euro Somalis that I've seen, I'm guessing they cluster somewhere around Maghrebis seeing as they are around 75% west Eurasian. I would expect the same of the Magyarabs and other NE African + SW Euro admixed groups of the region, all whom are essentially remnants of Ottoman rule.

    While outside thew scope of the topic here - I think we should finally bring up the question as to the source the fairly moderate and consistent frequency of ydna I amongst Sudani Arabs, Nubians, and southern Egyptians. It's broad spread in this region, in addition to it's significant frequencies makes me think this predates the Ottomans. They need to get tested so know what subclade they fall under.

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  13. #2237
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    Quote Originally Posted by VytautusofAukstaitija View Post
    This lines up well with Memnon's Trojan lineage, and fits reasonably with the fact that E-V1515 and E-V32 are essentially backmutated E-V13 from Minoan and Lydians. I mean, E-V13 isn't called alpha cluster E-M78 for no reason.
    It is non-sense . E-V13 has no relation with Ethiopians and East-Africans . Look at the phylo tree (Yfull and FTDNA) to understand the absurdity of your ideas.

    Non African part in Ethiopians and East-Africans has 2 sources
    1) from Nubia for E1b1b-M215 (xM123, V13) Y ascendants
    2) from Arabia and Sinaļ by a continuous Red Sea crossing during the holocene, this continuously for E-M123, J1 et T with some pulses from period to period .
    Last edited by palamede; 07-09-2019 at 10:42 AM.

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  15. #2238
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    Quote Originally Posted by palamede View Post
    It is non-sense . E-V13 has no relation with Ethiopians and East-Africans . Look at the phylo tree (Yfull and FTDNA) to understand the absurdity of your ideas.

    Non African part in Ethiopians and East-Africans has 2 sources
    1) from Nubia for E1b1b-M215 (xM123, V13) Y ascendants
    2) from Arabia and Sinaļ by a continuous Red Sea crossing during the holocene, this continuously for E-M123, J1 et T with some pulses from period to period .
    I think it was a joke.

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  17. #2239
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmokeefe View Post
    Late Pleistocene exploration and settlement of the Americas by modern humans in Science.
    Michael R. Waters

    Abstract
    North and South America were the last continents to be explored and settled by modern humans at the end of the Pleistocene. Genetic data, derived from contemporary populations and ancient individuals, show that the first Americans originated from Asia and after several population splits moved south of the continental ice sheets that covered Canada sometime between ~17.5 and ~14.6 thousand years (ka) ago. Archaeological evidence shows that geographically dispersed populations lived successfully, using biface, blade, and osseous technologies, in multiple places in North and South America between ~15.5 and ~14 ka ago. Regional archaeological complexes emerged by at least ~13 ka ago in North America and ~12.9 ka ago in South America. Current genetic and archaeological data do not support an earlier (pre–17.5 ka ago) occupation of the Americas.
    In French "la messe est dite" : nothing else can be added, the conclusion is definite, the question is over. Otherwise, you are a troll, a sayer of fake news.

    genetic datations are certain and a time-honored hard science . you must believe them when given by authorities .

    Many experimented professional archeologists who have found American human sites with good-cutting tools dated of more 20.000 years ago are self-deceived, victim of mirages and must be ignored by the good-thinkink people and all the arrivist students.
    Last edited by palamede; 07-12-2019 at 09:12 AM.

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  19. #2240
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmokeefe View Post
    Current genetic and archaeological data do not support an earlier (pre–17.5 ka ago) occupation of the Americas.
    Their own map shows two different strings of settlement: the western one is earlier and is dated to c. 17-18 ka and the continental one is dated to c. 12-14 kya.

    Colonization of America.GIF
    Last edited by Kristiina; 07-12-2019 at 09:50 AM.

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