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Thread: U152 > L2 > FGC10543 / FGC10516 / FGC10536

  1. #1
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    United States of America Italy 1861-1946 Spain

    U152 > L2 > FGC10543 / FGC10516 / FGC10536

    FGC10543 and FGC10536 are now available for testing via FamilyTreeDNA. FGC10543, FGC10536 and FGC10516 have been available from YSEQ.net for about a month or so.

    As many of you know, I share these three SNPs with an anonymous L2+ Sardinian kit. So far, the following Z49- Z367- kits have FGC10543 on order via FamilyTreeDNA:

    No. 207656, Fedele Fiera NPE, b. 1850, Capua, Caserta, Campania, Italy
    No. 289155, Frednando Boreali b.1890, Fiume Serchio, Lucca, Italy
    No. N86065, Angelo Ardoino,b.1891, Bonassola, La Spezia, Italy
    No. N76453, Angelo Tollari, 1832, Montefiorino, Modena, Emilia-Romagna, Italy
    No. N113294, Luigi Taruffi, b. 1888, Bologna, Emilia-Romagna, Italy
    No. B3593, Simeone Simonetti de Simon ~1655, Zoppé di Cadoré, Belluno, Veneto, Italy

    Of course, some of these might belong to DF103, DF90, etc., so we'll have to wait and see.

    The following two have ordered all three SNPs from YSEQ.net:

    184305 Biasio Pazia (Fiaschi), b. ~1390, Viterbo, Italy
    B3002 Martin Burkart b.1590 d.1664, Bühl, Baden, Germany

    The Burkart kit is already negative for FGC10543.
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543 >> PR5365, Pietro Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

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  3. #2
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    Ugh .. if Burkart kit is also negative for FGC10543 then I will also be ...
    Paternal: R1b-U152+ L2+ 7664023 et al., Pandolfo Guidi, b. ~1515, Ostra Vetere, Marches, Italy
    Maternal: U5b1b*, Delicata Frascone, b. ~1740, Sora, southern Lazio, Italy

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     Pigmon (06-27-2014)

  5. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alessio B. Bedini View Post
    Ugh .. if Burkart kit is also negative for FGC10543 then I will also be ...
    There are several papers that have come out in the last six months that say that STR distance is almost useless for P312 subclades because of the rapid expansion that it experienced. In your own example, of the your 14 closest matches (closer than Burkart), only one is L2+Z49-Z367- and all the rest are Z49+ or Z367 or Z36+ or Z56+ etc.

    The same is with my kit. My top two matches for years were Bartold (now DF103+) and Solomon (now Z49+). If we go outside our group, my top 20 matches in YSearch are all L21+, DF27+ or U106+.
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543 >> PR5365, Pietro Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

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     Agamemnon (06-23-2014),  Alessio B. Bedini (05-25-2014),  Bolgeris (05-25-2014),  Kwheaton (05-25-2014),  Pigmon (05-26-2014)

  7. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard A. Rocca View Post
    There are several papers that have come out in the last six months that say that STR distance is almost useless for P312 subclades because of the rapid expansion that it experienced. In your own example, of the your 14 closest matches (closer than Burkart), only one is L2+Z49-Z367- and all the rest are Z49+ or Z367 or Z36+ or Z56+ etc.

    The same is with my kit. My top two matches for years were Bartold (now DF103+) and Solomon (now Z49+). If we go outside our group, my top 20 matches in YSearch are all L21+, DF27+ or U106+.
    It surprised me how quickly STR predictive ability breaks down with distance. Make me worry a little about all the FTDNA predicted Y Haplogroups in STR Surname projects.

    [Edit - for example I match L2- samples at GD 7 out of 37 markers however closer than that I match multiple Eaton's who are known paper relatives.]
    Last edited by haleaton; 05-24-2014 at 01:41 PM.

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     Kwheaton (05-25-2014)

  9. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by haleaton View Post
    It surprised me how quickly STR predictive ability breaks down with distance. Make me worry a little about all the FTDNA predicted Y Haplogroups in STR Surname projects.

    [Edit - for example I match L2- samples at GD 7 out of 37 markers however closer than that I match multiple Eaton's who are known paper relatives.]
    I have two 65/67 matches in the FTDNA database: one is L21 and U106. My son is "only" a 65/67 match with me. Go figure!
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543 >> PR5365, Pietro Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

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  11. #6
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    I ordered FGC10536 on YSEQ because i could be M9213 as Burkart.

    i know that STR distance is almost useless for P312 subclades but I and Burkart have our distance almost all on DYS fast while almost our DYS slow are identical. For this I think there is a bond between us.

    If I were M9213 might be important..
    Last edited by Alessio B. Bedini; 05-25-2014 at 11:41 AM.
    Paternal: R1b-U152+ L2+ 7664023 et al., Pandolfo Guidi, b. ~1515, Ostra Vetere, Marches, Italy
    Maternal: U5b1b*, Delicata Frascone, b. ~1740, Sora, southern Lazio, Italy

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  13. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alessio B. Bedini View Post
    I ordered FGC10536 on YSEQ because i could be M9213 as Burkart.

    i know that STR distance is almost useless for P312 subclades but I and Burkart have our distance almost all on DYS fast while almost our DYS slow are identical. For this I think there is a bond between us.

    If I were M9213 might be important..
    Great to hear that Alessio. Good luck either way.
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543 >> PR5365, Pietro Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

  14. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard A. Rocca View Post
    FGC10543 and FGC10536 are now available for testing via FamilyTreeDNA. FGC10543, FGC10536 and FGC10516 have been available from YSEQ.net for about a month or so.

    As many of you know, I share these three SNPs with an anonymous L2+ Sardinian kit. So far, the following Z49- Z367- kits have FGC10543 on order via FamilyTreeDNA:

    No. 207656, Fedele Fiera NPE, b. 1850, Capua, Caserta, Campania, Italy
    No. 289155, Frednando Boreali b.1890, Fiume Serchio, Lucca, Italy
    No. N86065, Angelo Ardoino,b.1891, Bonassola, La Spezia, Italy
    No. N76453, Angelo Tollari, 1832, Montefiorino, Modena, Emilia-Romagna, Italy
    No. N113294, Luigi Taruffi, b. 1888, Bologna, Emilia-Romagna, Italy
    No. B3593, Simeone Simonetti de Simon ~1655, Zoppé di Cadoré, Belluno, Veneto, Italy

    Ordered from YSEQ.net :
    No. 184305 Biasio Pazia (Fiaschi), b. ~1390, Viterbo, Italy
    The first six kits above are part of batch 572 with a due date of 7/17/2014.
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543 >> PR5365, Pietro Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

  15. #9
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    My results have been entered by a couple of hours, but unfortunately my YDNA is for FGC10536 C- and for M9213 A+
    Rich has checked through many U152+ samples for M9212 and they were all positive, so it is not of value to us.

    Within a few days I would do a few more tests.
    I did FGC5338, DF90, DF110
    I did not make the DF103 because Burkart is negative.
    Maybe now I will.
    Paternal: R1b-U152+ L2+ 7664023 et al., Pandolfo Guidi, b. ~1515, Ostra Vetere, Marches, Italy
    Maternal: U5b1b*, Delicata Frascone, b. ~1740, Sora, southern Lazio, Italy

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  17. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alessio B. Bedini View Post
    My results have been entered by a couple of hours, but unfortunately my YDNA is for FGC10536 C- and for M9213 A+
    Rich has checked through many U152+ samples for M9212 and they were all positive, so it is not of value to us.

    Within a few days I would do a few more tests.
    I did FGC5338, DF90, DF110
    I did not make the DF103 because Burkart is negative.
    Maybe now I will.
    Good luck on your DF103 test Alessio.
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543 >> PR5365, Pietro Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

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