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Thread: Genetic Origin of Albanians

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruzmi View Post
    With several other users we collected K13 (which were then converted to G25 sims) and G25 coords by Albanians from different regions in order to create a more representative average for the Albanian population. I would like to thank everybody who helped and make a special mention for Zanatis who found and contacted many individuals for sampling. The full list of individual samples will be published at a later date as full annotation is being worked out and new samples will likely be added.

    n= 77 (12 existing samples from the existing G25 dataset + 65 new G25 sims and G25)

    Existing Albanian G25 dataset (n=12) and new dataset (n=77)


    The existing Albanian dataset covers ~70% of total Albanian variability as reflected in the new dataset. The inner distribution at the intersection between the two datasets is highly different and much of the average variability and inner clustering of Albanian samples is not represented in the older dataset. This means that the existing dataset is only partly representative of average Albanian variability both quantitatively and qualitatively.

    Comparison of average values:
    Code:
    Albanian_old,0.1181863,0.1417511,0.0155562,-0.0158808,0.0251586,-0.0074138,0.0033683,0.0018077,0.0006648,0.0161279,0.0011097,0.0015486,-0.0070986,0.0066059,-0.019295,-0.0041544,0.0081273,0.0014992,0.0082962,-0.0059402,-0.0055629,0.0007212,0.0024238,0.0021991,-0.0025248
    Albanian_new,0.12098974,0.1446909,0.016269078,-0.016299558,0.025773831,-0.0048755065,0.00095344156,0.00027711688,0.0031148831,0.015759169,0.00013324675,0.0026802597,-0.0071447403,0.0023749221,-0.012327208,-0.00037183117,0.0078564935,0.00061572727,0.0042468831,-0.004238987,-0.0050441039,0.00093803896,0.00063811688,0.000061818182,-0.000051051948


    Modern populations:

    Distance to: Albanian_old
    0.01172523 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    0.01398776 Greek_Macedonia
    0.01647191 Greek_Thessaly
    0.01738110 Rumelia_East
    0.01894300 Greek_Peloponnese
    0.02764228 Italian_Tuscany
    0.02824767 Swiss_Italian
    0.02837148 Italian_Piedmont
    0.02864146 Gagauz
    0.02928925 Italian_Marche
    0.03115133 Greek_Izmir
    0.03122240 Bulgarian
    0.03123173 Italian_Umbria
    0.03186874 Greek_Laconia
    0.03281939 Italian_Molise

    Distance to: Albanian_new
    0.01209714 Greek_Central_Macedonia
    0.01400206 Greek_Thessaly
    0.01672179 Greek_Macedonia
    0.01775242 Rumelia_East
    0.01968231 Italian_Tuscany
    0.02000210 Greek_Peloponnese
    0.02007244 Swiss_Italian
    0.02023180 Italian_Piedmont
    0.02366034 Italian_Marche
    0.02453388 Italian_Umbria
    0.02717856 Italian_Veneto
    0.02876732 Gagauz
    0.03021512 Italian_Lazio
    0.03054964 Italian_Bergamo
    0.03057167 Greek_Laconia


    Pre-medieval populations:

    Distance to: Albanian_old
    0.02599546 GRC_Logkas_MBA
    0.03105090 ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity
    0.03277406 Scythian_MDA
    0.03455405 SRB_Mokrin_EBA_Maros_oAegean
    0.03609949 ITA_Proto-Villanovan
    0.03611625 HRV_Pop_CA
    0.03664529 HUN_IA_Syrmian_SremGroup
    0.03753924 HUN_LBA_EIA
    0.04001548 HRV_EBA
    0.04127877 HRV_EIA


    Distance to: Albanian_new
    0.02432793 GRC_Logkas_MBA
    0.02581156 ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity
    0.03151149 Scythian_MDA
    0.03310358 SRB_Mokrin_EBA_Maros_oAegean
    0.03435231 HUN_LBA_EIA
    0.03437358 HRV_Pop_CA
    0.03441905 HUN_IA_Syrmian_SremGroup
    0.03506589 ITA_Proto-Villanovan
    0.03517396 HRV_EIA
    0.03580568 HRV_EBA

    Distance to populations from the Roman Balkans:

    Distance to: Albanian_old
    0.02937597 Gardun_Tilurium_Croatia_549_CE_600CE:3544:3544
    0.03335371 Zadar_Croatia_127_CE_227_CE:3747
    0.03422501 Sipar_Umag_Croatia_558_CE_639_CE:3662:3662
    0.03542427 Sviloš_Kruševlje_Serbia_236_CE_331_CE:6693:6693
    0.03654690 Beli_Manastir_Croatia_255_CE_405_CE:3542:3542
    0.03776972 Sirmium_Serbia_266_CE_430_CE:6730:6730
    0.03944106 Sviloš_Kruševlje_Serbia_236_CE_331_CE:6701:6701
    0.04265914 Sipar_Umag_Croatia_686_CE_876_CE:3663:3663
    0.04736707 Zadar_Croatia_22_CE_121_CE:3745:3745
    0.04839841 Osijek_Croatia_133CE_306CE:3655:3655
    0.05454439 Zadar_Croatia_127_CE_227_CE:3746
    0.06185512 Doclea_Bjelovine_Montenegro_709_CE_880_CE:3478:347 8
    0.06991570 Trogir_Dragulin_Croatia_124_CE_217_CE:3665:3665
    0.07280484 Zadar_Croatia_127_CE_227_CE:3742:3742
    0.08226871 Sirmium_Serbia_1481_CE_1635_CE:6737:6737
    0.08259413 Sirmium_Serbia_1479_CE_1634_CE:3906:3906
    0.09071470 Trogir_Policija_Croatia_120CE_215_CE:3670:3670
    0.09710730 Viminacium_Serbia_129_CE_230_CE:3931:3931

    Distance to: Albanian_new
    0.02666428 Gardun_Tilurium_Croatia_549_CE_600CE:3544:3544
    0.02799523 Zadar_Croatia_127_CE_227_CE:3747
    0.02951193 Sipar_Umag_Croatia_558_CE_639_CE:3662:3662
    0.03226992 Beli_Manastir_Croatia_255_CE_405_CE:3542:3542
    0.03471729 Sviloš_Kruševlje_Serbia_236_CE_331_CE:6693:6693
    0.03678690 Sirmium_Serbia_266_CE_430_CE:6730:6730
    0.03816536 Sviloš_Kruševlje_Serbia_236_CE_331_CE:6701:6701
    0.03840354 Sipar_Umag_Croatia_686_CE_876_CE:3663:3663
    0.04563692 Zadar_Croatia_22_CE_121_CE:3745:3745
    0.04621254 Osijek_Croatia_133CE_306CE:3655:3655
    0.05284715 Zadar_Croatia_127_CE_227_CE:3746
    0.06097498 Doclea_Bjelovine_Montenegro_709_CE_880_CE:3478:347 8
    0.06912722 Trogir_Dragulin_Croatia_124_CE_217_CE:3665:3665
    0.07371484 Zadar_Croatia_127_CE_227_CE:3742:3742
    0.08221655 Sirmium_Serbia_1479_CE_1634_CE:3906:3906
    0.08246558 Sirmium_Serbia_1481_CE_1635_CE:6737:6737
    0.09039312 Trogir_Policija_Croatia_120CE_215_CE:3670:3670
    0.09498046 Viminacium_Serbia_129_CE_230_CE:3931:3931


    Comments:
    1)In comparison to the old dataset, the new Albanian cluster shows a higher affinity to pre-medieval populations in the Balkans and modern southern Europe and a lower post-Migration Period admixture.

    2) Within Albania, on the north-south axis, there is no distinct geographical south/north sub-clustering which is to say that all possible variations of the same typical profile are found from south to north of Albania.



    (veri = north, jug= south, Shqipëri qendrore = central Albania - samples which have origins from both southern and northern regions weren't used in this PCA)

    3)Some profiles which were considered to be outliers on the official G25 dataset are in fact common part of Albanian variation. AL12 is one such profile which is almost entirely EEF/Yamnaya. There are several Albanian profiles which have such features. In my opinion, as such features aren't correlated with population contact situations, a likely explanation is endogamy within particular Albanian regions. Endogamy may have enhanced certain components, while it lowered to a great extent others (autosomal drift).
    Kudos for your guys' work! Well done!
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  3. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    What I believe to be conjecture is that this substrate or admixture came from an older Thracian (or related) population. As for the Paeonians, their ethnolinguistic character is still a matter of debate and mystery. Traditional historiography does maintain that at least a number of the tribes from Paeonia were Thracian or Thracian-related, however, this connection has scarcely been linguistically investigated or verified. There are also those (the majority of linguists) who maintain a relation to Greek and Illyrian. I believe that they were a distinct population group that may have been related to the neighbouring peoples.

    From Radoslav Katičić's Ancient Languages of the Balkans:

    The evidence at our disposal being so extremely scarce and contradictory it is only natural that scholars interested in the subject have expressed a variety of opinions. It is quite clear that the Paeonians were never Hellenes in any cultural sense. Nevertheless, some scholars believe them to be of Greek stock and their language to be another Greek dialect. Other think that the Paeonians were not Greek. The prevailing opinion is that they were "Illyrian", i.e., form a part of the linguistic complex of the ancient north-western Balkans. Still other scholars believe them to be Thracian or Phrygian.

    We know so little about their language that any assertion as to their linguistic affiliations seems meaningless. The general impression is that they did not speak Greek, but had very old contacts with the Greek world. The possibility, however, that they took part in the great Greek migration and remained behind on the route, and consequently spoke a Greek dialect, or a lost Indo-European language closely related to Greek, cannot be wholly ruled out. They had no part in Hellenic culture nor in the Hellenic name and the Hellenes regarded them as northern barbarians. In Paeonia, too, the northern border zone of the Greek world remains in a historical twilight in which the ethnic and linguistic situation cannot be clearly discerned.
    I'm quoting Kelmendasi here, since I think this is a more appropriate topic than the one about E-V13. And the reason is I recently took particular interest in Paeonians myself, as I think they are mostly overlooked in the discussions about Paleo-Balkan tribes. IMO they are the strongest candidate for the original speakers of (pre-)proto-Albanian because: i) they were an inland population, as most authorities in the field of linguistics think (pre-)proto-Albanians were; ii) they were in close contact with Ancient Greeks, which would account for the oldest stratum of Ancient Greek loans in Albanian, which, if I'm not mistaken, is dated to the Iron Age; and iii) Paeonian tribes lived around and between Vardar (Aksiós) and Struma (Strymónas) rivers, and I must say I was shocked when I saw how clear etymologies these river names have in Albanian:


    varda'r: nm juncture of two streams of water, river junction

    vardha'r: nm 1 waterfall; 2 = varda'r

    strum: nm 1 deep pool in a river; deep pond under a waterfall; 2 drainage line; 3 marshy land, swampland


    So if (pre-)proto-Albanians are descended from Illyrians as some people still believe, and have lived in the territory of modern Albania continiously from the BA, how on earth two major rivers in a region that was never inhabited by Illyrians have so clear etymologies in Albanian? We should also remember that modern Štip (Astibos), whose name is undoubtedly the finest example of Proto-Albanian phonetic rules, is located in ancient Paeonian lands, exactly between Vardar and Struma rivers:

    It is generally acknowledged that the Slavic 'Štip' follows Proto-Albanian phonetic rules and was acquired via the Albanian 'Shtip'.[4][5][6] Shtip may indicate that Proto-Albanian was spoken in the region in pre-Slavic antiquity.[7][8]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%A0tip


    Location of Paeonian tribes in antiquity:

    1280px-Map-of-the-Paeonian-Tribes-English-svg.png
    Last edited by Pribislav; 07-01-2022 at 01:35 AM.

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  5. #123
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    The Paeonians are certainly an intriguing and mysterious peoples who are often neglected in these discussions. However, this is mainly due to the fact that we have an extremely meagre understanding of the Paeonians and their language - of which we have almost nothing concrete, and that which we do have (e.g., the ethnonym/tribal name Ἀγρίανες) seems to suggest a centum affiliation (as well as a possible relation to Hellenic).

    Contacts between the ancestors of the Albanians and Ancient Greeks likely occurred since the seventh century BCE at the very latest. This is suggested by the fact that Hesychius of Alexandria attributes the Doric term ἀάνθα (a type of earring) to the seventh century choral lyric poet from Sparta, Alcman. The term itself is likely of Proto-Albanian origin; derived from *awántha (earring). This, alongside other linguistic evidence, also suggests that Proto-Albanian was in contact with Doric Greek as opposed to other dialects. However, it is abundantly clear that the ancestors of the Albanians (at least at a later stage) were not in as extensive and intimate contacts with the Ancient Greeks as the Paeonians were (the anthroponyms of their rulers are almost entirely Hellenic in character), as is made evident by the fact that the impact Ancient Greek (or Greek in general) had on the development of Albanians was extremely minor in comparison to say, Latin. Albanian developed in an environment that was not significantly impacted by Hellenic assimilation, unlike the Paeonians.

    In regards to the above mentioned hydronyms; while they may appear as related to Albanian, it is not so clear cut. According to Orel, the Albanian term strum is in fact a loanword from Proto-Slavic *strumy meaning "stream" or "brook". As for Vardar, its etymology is still rather uncertain so I would not consider it to be anything solid (I will check later as it is rather late). And the toponym Štip did indeed develop via Proto-Albanian sound laws, however, the name itself does not have a Proto-Albanian etymology, at most this toponym only informs us that a Proto-Albanian population was present in the region by the time the Slavs arrived - that is not really evidence of an ancient continuous presence. Same thing goes for Niš, which is not located in what was once Paeonia. On the other hand, toponyms that can more easily be explained through Albanian are found to a larger extent in historical Illyria; for example Brač in Croatia which is etymologically related to Proto-Albanian *brina.
    Last edited by Kelmendasi; 07-01-2022 at 02:05 AM.
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  7. #124
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    In my opinion, Proto-Albanians in late Roman antiquity also lived in a part of western and northern Macedonia but this should be seen as independent of the Paeonians for a number of key reasons.

    Paeonians as a people were Hellenized culturally and linguistically at a very early age. By the late Hellenistic era, almost all names in key Paeonian settlements are ancient Greek and they were part of the Balkans which used Greek as their lingua franca. Albanians, on the other hand, were certainly part of the Balkans which used Latin as their lingua france and in fact Latin is the language which has had the most impact on Albanian.

    Greek Paeonian Stobi and all Paeonian settlements are south of the Jirecek line.



    But just to the north of them begins the "Latin-influenced region" and it is in fact in Stobi where one of the very few inscriptions which mention an "Albanos" - in a context where it is considered to be used as an ethnonymic surname - is found.

    About hydronyms:

    I think that Strum is from the medieval Bulgarian rendering of Greek Strymonas. If it existed in Albanian at least since Roman antiquity, it would follow the same rule as Astibos>Shtip, hence *Shtrym.

    Vardar is a hydronym which first appears in the medieval era. Even then it wasn't widespread until the 15th century. Duridanov writes that the local Macedonian Slavs in the upper and middle section of the river used the term Velika Reka and not Vardar. Before the Middle Ages, the river is known exclusively as Axios in Greek and indeed in Albanian it is also known as Ashi as Pjetër Bogdani writes in Cuneus Prophetarum. Ashi but not Aksi indicates that the river name was known to P-Albanians since antiquity. In any case, the river originates near Gostivar (north-western Macedonia), so it's not out of place with a theory which considers Proto-Albanians as inhabitants of at least one part of northern Macedonia.

    Duridanov (1975) is probably the most exhaustive source about the Hydronymy of the Vardar basin.

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  9. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruzmi View Post
    In my opinion, Proto-Albanians in late Roman antiquity also lived in a part of western and northern Macedonia but this should be seen as independent of the Paeonians for a number of key reasons.

    Paeonians as a people were Hellenized culturally and linguistically at a very early age. By the late Hellenistic era, almost all names in key Paeonian settlements are ancient Greek and they were part of the Balkans which used Greek as their lingua franca. Albanians, on the other hand, were certainly part of the Balkans which used Latin as their lingua france and in fact Latin is the language which has had the most impact on Albanian.

    Greek Paeonian Stobi and all Paeonian settlements are south of the Jirecek line.



    But just to the north of them begins the "Latin-influenced region" and it is in fact in Stobi where one of the very few inscriptions which mention an "Albanos" - in a context where it is considered to be used as an ethnonymic surname - is found.

    About hydronyms:

    I think that Strum is from the medieval Bulgarian rendering of Greek Strymonas. If it existed in Albanian at least since Roman antiquity, it would follow the same rule as Astibos>Shtip, hence *Shtrym.

    Vardar is a hydronym which first appears in the medieval era. Even then it wasn't widespread until the 15th century. Duridanov writes that the local Macedonian Slavs in the upper and middle section of the river used the term Velika Reka and not Vardar. Before the Middle Ages, the river is known exclusively as Axios in Greek and indeed in Albanian it is also known as Ashi as Pjetër Bogdani writes in Cuneus Prophetarum. Ashi but not Aksi indicates that the river name was known to P-Albanians since antiquity. In any case, the river originates near Gostivar (north-western Macedonia), so it's not out of place with a theory which considers Proto-Albanians as inhabitants of at least one part of northern Macedonia.

    Duridanov (1975) is probably the most exhaustive source about the Hydronymy of the Vardar basin.
    I doubt they where hellenized at all......because the Macedonians which sit between the Paeonians and Greeks where not hellenized.................even during Alexanders campaigns against the Persians, Macedonians troops could still not understand the Greeks ( their allies that came along )..........so clearly, there was a difference ......................The Macedonian royals clearly could speak both Macedonian an Greek though


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  10. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by vettor View Post
    I doubt they where hellenized at all......because the Macedonians which sit between the Paeonians and Greeks where not hellenized.................even during Alexanders campaigns against the Persians, Macedonians troops could still not understand the Greeks ( their allies that came along )..........so clearly, there was a difference ......................The Macedonian royals clearly could speak both Macedonian an Greek though
    Following the death of Alexander the Great and the beginning of the Hellenistic period, both groups were already in a process of intense Hellenization. This only intensified and became complete with time. Archaeological evidence actually suggests a degree of cultural Hellenization since the fifth century BCE. From the chapter 'The "Hellenization" process and the Balkan Iron Age Archaeology':

    It is widely believed that the intensity of the process grew over time, subsequently enlarging the "Hellenized" territories. From the middle of the 5th century BC in the Upper and the Middle Vardar course - a region neighbouring the already "Hellenized" Pelagonia and the Lower Vardar valley - the locally produced material begins to "imitate" the supposed Greek "role models"... This vast continental region, which became "Hellenized" starting from the 5th century BC, encompasses the territories supposedly belonging to the "Paeonians" and "Thracians".
    Last edited by Kelmendasi; 07-01-2022 at 09:15 AM.
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  12. #127
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    The Pelagonians near Bitola seem Greek-like.

    The original homeland of Macedonians proper could have been south of lake Kastoria where Argos Orestikon is and they should have had Mycenaean related admixture at least. In the plain, e.g. where both Pella and Aigae are there could have been non-Macedonian, non-Greek populations of uncertain affiliation. (If Greco-Phrygian is a valid grouping there could have been Greco-Phrygian related groups. Or maybe Thracians).

    The Dorians could have expanded from the Pindus mountains too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pribislav View Post
    I'm quoting Kelmendasi here, since I think this is a more appropriate topic than the one about E-V13. And the reason is I recently took particular interest in Paeonians myself, as I think they are mostly overlooked in the discussions about Paleo-Balkan tribes. IMO they are the strongest candidate for the original speakers of (pre-)proto-Albanian because: i) they were an inland population, as most authorities in the field of linguistics think (pre-)proto-Albanians were; ii) they were in close contact with Ancient Greeks, which would account for the oldest stratum of Ancient Greek loans in Albanian, which, if I'm not mistaken, is dated to the Iron Age; and iii) Paeonian tribes lived around and between Vardar (Aksiós) and Struma (Strymónas) rivers, and I must say I was shocked when I saw how clear etymologies these river names have in Albanian:


    varda'r: nm juncture of two streams of water, river junction

    vardha'r: nm 1 waterfall; 2 = varda'r

    strum: nm 1 deep pool in a river; deep pond under a waterfall; 2 drainage line; 3 marshy land, swampland


    So if (pre-)proto-Albanians are descended from Illyrians as some people still believe, and have lived in the territory of modern Albania continiously from the BA, how on earth two major rivers in a region that was never inhabited by Illyrians have so clear etymologies in Albanian? We should also remember that modern Štip (Astibos), whose name is undoubtedly the finest example of Proto-Albanian phonetic rules, is located in ancient Paeonian lands, exactly between Vardar and Struma rivers:



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%A0tip


    Location of Paeonian tribes in antiquity:

    1280px-Map-of-the-Paeonian-Tribes-English-svg.png
    I think we should be very careful with assigning any identity to the Paeonian language, even after we have extensive DNA sampling from N. Macedonia (as genes don't speak languages). The Paeonians were always treated as distinct from the Thracians, Dardanians, and Illyrians. Furthermore, we know almost nothing about their language. Based on their onomastics, there are clear Greek and Thracian influences, but many of the "purely" Paeonian names have no obvious cognate with any neighbouring language.

    Based on the above, I can see no evidence for any relationship between Albanian and Paeonian.

    In my opinion (and according to that of many linguists), proto-Albanian most probably originates from somewhere in the Daco-Moesian world, or at least from a contact zone between Illyrian and Daco-Moesian speech (e.g. Dardania). The latter hypothesis of mine explainins why Albanians have a mix of some Illyrian J2b lineages, as well as E-V13 and R1b-Z2103 clades that seem to be associated with more Central Balkan groups.
    distance: 0.01753688
    Ancient Greece/Balkans: 48.2
    Early Slavic: 24.6
    RUS_Maykop_Novosvobodnaya: 14.8
    Levant_Megiddo_IA: 9.6
    MAR_Taforalt: 1
    CHN_Chuanyun_Historic: 1.2
    Yoruba: 0.6

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  16. #129
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    PS - Paeonia was almost completely hellenised by Roman times, while the Albanian language clearly evolved in a heavily latinised area.
    distance: 0.01753688
    Ancient Greece/Balkans: 48.2
    Early Slavic: 24.6
    RUS_Maykop_Novosvobodnaya: 14.8
    Levant_Megiddo_IA: 9.6
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    CHN_Chuanyun_Historic: 1.2
    Yoruba: 0.6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pribislav View Post
    I'm quoting Kelmendasi here, since I think this is a more appropriate topic than the one about E-V13. And the reason is I recently took particular interest in Paeonians myself, as I think they are mostly overlooked in the discussions about Paleo-Balkan tribes. IMO they are the strongest candidate for the original speakers of (pre-)proto-Albanian because: i) they were an inland population, as most authorities in the field of linguistics think (pre-)proto-Albanians were; ii) they were in close contact with Ancient Greeks, which would account for the oldest stratum of Ancient Greek loans in Albanian, which, if I'm not mistaken, is dated to the Iron Age; and iii) Paeonian tribes lived around and between Vardar (Aksiós) and Struma (Strymónas) rivers, and I must say I was shocked when I saw how clear etymologies these river names have in Albanian:


    varda'r: nm juncture of two streams of water, river junction

    vardha'r: nm 1 waterfall; 2 = varda'r

    strum: nm 1 deep pool in a river; deep pond under a waterfall; 2 drainage line; 3 marshy land, swampland


    So if (pre-)proto-Albanians are descended from Illyrians as some people still believe, and have lived in the territory of modern Albania continiously from the BA, how on earth two major rivers in a region that was never inhabited by Illyrians have so clear etymologies in Albanian? We should also remember that modern Štip (Astibos), whose name is undoubtedly the finest example of Proto-Albanian phonetic rules, is located in ancient Paeonian lands, exactly between Vardar and Struma rivers:



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%A0tip


    Location of Paeonian tribes in antiquity:

    1280px-Map-of-the-Paeonian-Tribes-English-svg.png
    Strum seems like a Medieval borrowing since we know that if it was really an Albanian it would of sound more like shtrum.
    Varda'r is interesting but I couldn't find much about it and it seems it's some obscure, dialectal word. Maybe some Albanian friends can help here...

    Then again, from the available Paeonian anthroponymy and toponymy there isn't much overlap with Albanian.
    Names of some Paeonian tribes: The Paeonian tribes (five or eight) were: Agrianes/Agriani/Agrii, Almopians/Almopioi, Derrones/Derroni, Doberes, Laeaeans/Laeaei/Laiai, Odomantes/Odomanti, Paeoplae, Siropaiones etc.
    Some names of Paeomnian settlements: Amidon, Astraion, Stenae, Stobi, Astibo etc.
    Names of some rulers: Agis, Lycceius, Patraus, Audoleon, Ariston, Leon, Dropion, Bastareus etc.
    Based on this, the Paeonian onomastics have more in common with the Greek rather than Albanian. And the prevailing opinion today(even though the old work of Katicic which favors Illyrian as the closest parallel is still cited) is that the Paeonian it seems at least to have been significantly influenced by some Greekoid language, if not entirely a Greekoid language.
    In spite of the scarceness of the relevant grammatical and lexical data, the Hellenic hypothesis of the closer genetic unity of Greek with such relic languages as Macedonian, Paeonian, Epirotic from the South Balkan or Phrygian and Messapic, originating historically from the same region, seems a hypothesis promising more than any of their alternative affiliations.

    Vaclav Blazek gives the following classification for the ancient languages of the Balkan:

    I. Hellenic: Phrygian, Greek, Macedonian, Paionic, Epirotic, ?Messapic.
    II. South Balkanian: Pelasgic.
    III. Southeast Balkanian: Thracian
    IV. Northwest Balkanian: Daco-Getic, Mysian, Dardanian, Illyrian, Albanian.

    Paeonians [nocloveq] are first mentioned in Iliad. Homer located them to the river Axios (today Vardar): "Pyraechmes led the Paeonians, reflex bows in hand, hailing from Amydon far west and the broad river Axius, Axius, clearest stream that flows across the earth" [II, 848-50] further "... and hit Pyrachmeus, firebrand who led the Paeonians, the master riders from Amydon, from Axius' broad currents" [XVI, 187-88; translation Robert Fagles]. According to Herodotus " ... Paeonia was a country upon the river Strymon, and the Strymon was at no great distance from the Hellespont. The Paeonians were colonists of the Teucrians from Troy" [V, 13; translation George Rawlinson]. Similarly Strabo connects Paeonians with Phrygians [VII, fragm. 37], although elsewhere he describes them as Thracians [VII, fragm. 11]. But both Herodotus [VIII, 185] and Thucydides [II, 98]
    differentiate them from the Thracians. Pausanias presents a genealogy of Paeonians: "The Eleans we know owned over from Calydon and Aetolia generally.
    From the Paeonian language almost nothing is preserved. Aristotle in Historia animalium [IX, 45] recorded the word μόναπος, μόνωψ "wisent", which contains the IE word for "neck": Old Indie manyd, Old Irish muin id., Old High German mana "mane". Richer linguistic data are reflected in the proper names. Hesychius preserved the gloss Δύαλος, • ό Διόνυσος παρά Παίωσιν, which is perhaps derivable from *dh (u)ulno-, cf. Old Irish & Welsh dall "blind", Gothic dwals "foolish", Old English dwala "error", Old Saxon dwalm "fascination" etc. The name of the capital of Paeonians 'Αμυδόν ~ 'Αβυδόν alows to be derive from *ambi-udon "on both [sides of] water" (Duridanov, Georgiev). The ethnonym 'Αγριάνες of one of the Paeonian tribes can be formed from IE *agro-"field". This etymology, if correct, would indicate that Paeonian belongs among the languages of the centum-type. But the names of other tribes as Δόβηρες, Λαιαίοι, Σιροπαίονες, Παίόπλαε, are not satisfactorily explained. It is only apparent that the latter two are compounds consisting of the ethnonym Παίονες.
    We can observe here that Homer calls Axios(Vardar) the clearest stream that flows across the Earth. That doesn't goes in line with the supposed meaning of it's name Axios - black, dark. In fact, there is alternative to it's name found exactly in Albanian bardhë (“white”). In this sense the meaning would be the white river. This makes even more sense because in the local Slavic dialects and Bulgarian as well the Aegean sea in which Axios/Vardar flows is called Belo More(White Sea). But this in no way means that the name was borrowed from Albanian people because the name would then have been Bardar, not Vardar. The change B > V is typical of the Greek and this took place during Roman times. In that sense, the name could have been borrowed by some local people who retained their own old name for the river but which language was Greek and was following the changes that occurred in Greek. That is in line with the epigraphic evidence of the region which is firmly placed south of the line that divides Greek from Latin.
    All in all, the Paeonian shows strong Greek influence even before the Roman occupation of the region and is widely known that during the Roman occupation the Greek managed to get widespread even north to places such as Serdica, modern Sofia. Albanian lacks anything of that sort but shows old Doric borrowings, not many BTW.

    Although it's not out of question to assume that some superstrate layer in Paeonian was ancestral to Albanians as well. That layer is best observed archaeologically where in the territories known to have been inhabited by the Paeonians the archaeologists observed continuation since the LBA but significant influence that came from north during the BA/EIA transition. This north influence came from the Brnjica and Gava-Belegish II cultures and interrupted the local development of the Ulanci-Vardar cultural group.
    As for Ulanci cultural group, this developed on the bases of the MBA Bubanj-Hum II - Armenchori complex and the Mycenaean civilization. Both Ulanci and Devol-Maliq II group show same developments, on the bases of Bubanj-Hum II-Armenchori and the Mycenaean civilization where local Matt painted pottery imitating the Mycenaean one was produced. But this was not just imitation, literrarly from burial rituals and practices to weapons and pottery and even hygienic tools the Mycenaean influence is seen everywhere. Double axes and labryses so typical of the Mycenaean burial practices are regularly found in the burials of the Ulanci cultural group and this group is considered to have been quite conservative in accepting foreign elements, especially in burial practices.
    As I already said, the exactly same development had the Devol-Maliq II cultural group and unlike Ulanci which development was interupted, the Devol group continued without much interruption and without too many influences from the north. The Devol group in the EIA spread towards Ohrid and Bitola(Pelagonia) and as it's known, exactly in those places we observe the Pelagones, a Greek Molossian tribe. Therefore, the Devol group was most likely north-western Greek group. There is nothing to suggest that Ulanci couldn't have been some Greekoid group as well. In fact, I can argue that with the Ulanci group we can follow the cultural development of the Brygians/Phrygians. Especially because the areas of the Ulanci group which weren't much affected by influences from north, mainly between Vardar and the Pelagonian plain, were shown to have had a Greekoid influence in their onomastics which Georgiev marked as Phrygian. On the other hand, the areas that were more affected by northern influences, such as between Vardar and Struma were shown to have onomastics which Georgiev named Daco-Thracian. And it seems exactly the territory between Vardar and Struma was the core territory of the Paeonians. Nevertheless there must have been great degree of mixing between the Paeonians and the Phrygians. Therefore my opinion is that Brnjica is the ancestral culture of the Paeonians and probably this is the link between the Albanians and the Paeonians. Nonethless, I would say the group from which the Albanians developed weren't what we know as Paeonians from the historical sources even though both groups might have been closely related, but what was left from Brnjica in it's homeland where later on other superstrate elements were layer on top of the Brnjica one. Therefore, Kosovo and what we later know as Dardanians seems the most likely.

    Available material on Ulanci cultural groups of the LBA and about he IA cultures see here:
    http://www.kalamus.com.mk/pdf_spisan...19_06_2018.pdf
    This one is in Macedonian but good read as well:
    https://repository.ukim.mk/bitstream...zsanev2015.pdf
    Last edited by Aspar; 07-01-2022 at 03:49 PM.

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