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Thread: Ancestry Update + Ethnicity Inheritance (Apr 2022)

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    I have a solid number of Central European matches on Ancestry, of which none has any real British Isles or Scandinavian ancestry. Even if they have the same regional ancestry, some get British or Scandinavian, others don't. Ancestry is still not as much on the point as 23andme, but even the latter are not flawless in this respect. Like written before, the closer the corresponding components, the more messy it gets. I can really observe in people with the same ancestry how the above mentioned components "jump around". I honestly, unless they hit a specific margin, just add them up for my matches. If someone is Central European, I can just add Germanic Europe, NW Europe, all the British and Scandinavian just add up to "classical German". Ancestry is definitely not on the point in this respect, less so than 23andme, for understandable reasons.

    I still observe something which seems to affect the Ancestry results even more: That the genomic context changes the interpretation. Like Eastern Europeans with Slavic ancestry get more often Scandinavian for German instead of British, while Western Germans get more British instead of Scandinavian. Interestingly, this goes down to the parental inheritance now, because I have some known Slavic ancestry on my mothers side, which being severely underestimated and assigned mostly to German, but the algorithm put the minor Scandinavian I have on her side, which is quite typical. Most matches from Eastern Central Europe I got, with minor German, also have minor Scandinavian.

    The very Western German matches get even, still, sometimes something like Scottish, Irish and Welsh. In some it could be real, but not even a full single digit percentage. Its clearly the more Celtic-Germanic mixture which causes the confusion. Seems just natural it goes the other way around as well.
    Absolutely - I get that in my results too.

    Aside from the real Germanic Europe and Swede/Dane from my dad, I get minimal English - checking the confidence level, it's 4% assigned with a range from 0-19%, so very uncertain it seems. It does confidently assign me my major components - Slavic (EE and Russia), Germanic, Scandinavian, French and probably to a lesser extent Baltic (no known ancestry, but it's coming from my Russian grandfather so no real surprise). Many of my German and/or Dane cousins have some portion of English assigned without English ancestry (or Welsh/Scottish/Irish etc...), but it seems to be going down every update.

    The surprise is the breakdown from my Russian grandfather, I get 17% Baltic, 12% EE, and 2% Finnish while he is assigned 74% EE, 20% Baltic and 6% Finnish. Not out of the question, but I would've expected more EE from grandpa than Baltic. The Baltic has a pretty large confidence range too (3-30%).


    The very Western German matches get even, still, sometimes something like Scottish, Irish and Welsh. In some it could be real, but not even a full single digit percentage. Its clearly the more Celtic-Germanic mixture which causes the confusion. Seems just natural it goes the other way around as well.
    Yes, I get this from my French grandmother as well - 10% France, 4% Irish, 3% Germanic, 1% Malta, 1% Swede/Dane (I assume this is part is from her?). The Irish overlap in this case hints at some some Celtic-Germanic component as you mention. I wasn't surprised to see some Irish or Scottish assigned. I don't have any recent tie to Brittany, but I'm sure this is old admix. Still waiting for mom to test, so we'll see what she gets.

    If someone is Central European, I can just add Germanic Europe, NW Europe, all the British and Scandinavian just add up to "classical German". Ancestry is definitely not on the point in this respect, less so than 23andme, for understandable reasons.
    I agree 100%. I think I posted a long time ago, it's just going to get more messy for Central Europeans - there is too much overlap with the "major" components to be very useful. It might get in the ballpark, but it needs to be interpreted and I think the parental inheritance helps with that, especially in my case.
    Known Ancestry: NW Russian 25%, Central French 25%, North German 25%, Scandinavian 12.5%, mixed Polish/German (Pomerania) 12.5%

    yDNA: 2x great grandfather, born 1854, Danzig (Prussia/Poland/Pomerania)
    mtDNA: 3x great grandmother, born 1863, Bagneux, Indre, Centre Val-de Loire, France

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  3. #102
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    Well, as I've said before, Ancestry is really crappy about identifying German ancestry in folks who also have English ancestry. And it hasn't gotten better with each update, it's gotten worse. It's at the point where Ancestry identifies no German ancestry at all -- despite the fact that my own surname is of German origin! And not just my surname, but at least 14 of the surnames of my 3rd great grandparents are also of German origin. That's 14 out of 32, or nearly 44% -- and yet, Ancestry says I have no "Germanic Europe".

    What's more, with virtually every one of these folks I have ThruLines matches. But now that Ancestry has completely dropped my German ancestry -- or more accurately, they aren't distinguishing it from "England & Northwestern Europe" -- I have a new problem.

    Just this morning I was looking at one of the ThruLines matches who shares descent from my 5th great grandfather on my surname line. It turns out that this match has elected to only show in-common ethnicities to his matches, and I can see that he has 35% England & Northwestern Europe and 38% Scotland. That's just 73% -- so what is the missing 27%?

    Well, I think I mentioned that my daughter has 2% "Germanic Europe", which somehow -- magically -- comes from me. She also has 2% "Norway", which also magically comes from me. So I've been able to compare her in ThruLines to my match, since he's also her match. The match has 7% Germanic Europe and 2% Norway.

    I should note that before my "Germanic Europe" vanished in the latest update, a previous update showed both "Germanic Europe" and "Norway", though Norway was fairly new and appears to have come at the expense of earlier "Germanic Europe".

    It also looks to me as if I'm not the only one with lots of German ancestors whose "Germanic Europe" has been steadily declining, more with each Ancestry update. I really wish that "Palatines to America" -- an organization to which I've belong for years -- would get in on the act and ask Ancestry just what's happening. In my home state of Pennsylvania, German ancestry is very common. I think it's become difficult to find folks with ancestry dating back into colonial times in this state who have no German ancestry, but I suspect that if you were to go by Ancestry that number would be increasing.

    I was about to add that I can see the decline in Germanic Europe among the closest of my paternal relatives -- which is the side my Palatine German ancestry is on. But actually, in some cases I can't see it. One of my 1st cousins -- the daughter of my father's brother -- made that "in common" election, so now I can only see 49% of her ancestry: 46% "England & Northwestern Europe" and 3% "Scotland". Comparing her to my daughter, however, I can see 50% of the missing 51%: 31% "Germanic Europe", 12% "Ireland", 4% "Norway", and 3% "Wales".

    Ancestry reports my daughter as having 13% "Ireland", all from her mother; and 6% "Wales", also all from her mother. However, prior to this update Ancestry also reported a small percentage of both of these for me. Curiously, Ancestry only reports 2% "Wales" for my wife, despite the magical explosion into 6% for our daughter.

    EDIT:

    I might add, for what it's worth, that these are the percentages for "French & German" and "British & Irish" that my wife, daughter, and I get at 23andMe:

    me: French & German 48.2%; British & Irish 36.3%
    my wife: British & Irish 86.6%; French & German 8.4%
    our daughter: British & Irish 77.8%; French & German 12.2%

    For good measure, I'll throw in the results for my dad:

    French & German 47.1%; British & Irish 44.6%

    One difference, of course, between Ancestry and 23andMe is that, at the latter I can compare our chromosome paintings and not just percentages.

    Also, you'll note that my father's "French & German" at 23andMe is about the same as mine -- not higher. That means I obviously got part of this percentage from my mother, who has Alsatian, French, and Swiss ancestry (as well as a lot of other stuff). In fact, 23andMe's parental breakdown shows that 26.5% of my French & German came from my father, and 21.7% from my mother. 17.2% of my British & Irish came from my father, and 19.1% from my mother.

    For my daughter 23andMe reports that 33.0% of her British & Irish is from me, and 44.8% is from her mother. 10.4% of her French & German is from me, and 1.8% is from her mother. And again, at 23andMe we can actually compare the chromosome paintings to see whether they make any sense.
    Last edited by geebee; 04-15-2022 at 01:14 PM.
    Besides British-German-Catalan, ancestry includes smaller amounts of French, Irish, Swiss, Choctaw & another NA tribe, possibly Catawba. Avatar picture is: my father, his father, & his father's father; baby is my eldest brother.

    GB

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  5. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathlingram View Post
    https://www.ancestry.com/dna/origins...%20is%20random


    I can't seem to get a screenshot but only Dad has Wales


    Important is I have 43% Irish and Sister has 48 % I have 27% Wales and she has 38% So my Father who we now know as of 2 months ago had a known Welsh father
    This is also Important My 1/2 first cousin who shares the Welsh Grandfather with me had her Welsh go down 5% Mine went down 6% My Sister's stayed the same .. A Genetic Genealogist who had a preview of this rollout said this to me:" My understanding is that the results have simply been redone using the new SideView technology for phasing. Any changes will therefore be a consequence of the more accurate phasing which will in turn improve the matching of the segments to the reference populations."[/SIZE]
    Last edited by Kathlingram; 04-15-2022 at 01:02 PM.
    FTDNA- Group admin-FauntFant, LowerDelmarVa
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    3 Great GP 100% Ireland, 2 Great GP 100% Wales 7 GreatGreats 100% Ireland, 4 GreatGP 100% Wales ,3rdGreat GP Sweden,

    Fantstown Castle 13C Limerick Ancestral

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  7. #104
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    I see some discussion here about the somewhat confusing results for Germans on Ancestry..

    Here is my mother and uncle on Ancestry. Their paper trail is 88% German (Majority is West German, but also Southern German and distant Prussian as well), 12% English:



    On 23andMe my mother gets 88% F&G.
    Last edited by Mr.G; 04-15-2022 at 01:10 PM.

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  9. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by catman44 View Post
    I get 1% North African and 1% Basque for the first time after this update



    I have no known Scottish ancestors

    My Mum's family as far as I know is mainly of Irish and Northern English stock with a smidgen of Welsh
    Just call me Papa Dawg :coffee:
    Why always me Hidden Content

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  11. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luso View Post
    mine changed a bit:



    Finally I get some north africa, and the other small %'s are interesting as well. I seem to actually be the only one in my fam that inherited a SSA reference! Interesting


    This is my last update result (which looked pretty accurate - 96% iberian)

    I actually remembered I have a Scottish cousin who was a member of the Lisbon 'Factory' of British merchants in the late 18th century, you can see more information about it here

    https://www.bhsportugal.org/library/...sh-factory-(i)

    also a very detailed timeline of Anglo-Portuguese links, very fascinating to read as I had no idea about a lot of this info
    https://www.bhsportugal.org/anglo-portuguese-timeline

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  13. #107
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    Another of my many cousins at Ancestry is a 1st cousin once removed. In this case, she's what I would call "upstream" of me -- meaning she's my father's 1st cousin even though she's actually a bit younger than I am. She's the daughter of my paternal grandfather's full brother.

    Anyway, it turns out that she's another person who has taken the election to only show matches "in common" ancestries. I can only see 59% of her ancestry -- 29% "England & Northwestern Europe" and 30% "Scotland". Ancestry would no doubt say this is fine, because this certain seems as if it could match up with my ancestry.

    Keep in mind that even though as 1st cousins once removed we only share about 7% of our DNA, 50% of her ancestry is also my ancestry, since 100% of the ancestry of her father and my grandfather would have been exactly the same.

    Anyway, comparing this cousin to my daughter I can see my cousin also has 21% "Ireland" and 17% "Germanic Europe". But Ancestry would say these ancestries are irrelevant to me since I didn't inherit them. But here's the thing: I happen to know that my cousin's mother was primarily of British descent. So presumably a significant portion of my cousin's 29% "England & Northwestern Europe" must have come from the mother, and perhaps some of the 30% "Scotland". Maybe also some of that 21% "Ireland" that is irrelevant to me, anyway.

    The question, then, is where did my cousin's 17% "Germanic Europe" come from? Very likely, the majority of it came from her father, my grandfather's full brother. Again, even though her father and my grandfather likely inherited somewhat different percentages from their respective ancestors, those ancestors were nevertheless exactly the same people. To the best of my knowledge, they had only two different ancestries going back to colonial times: German and British (reportedly mostly Scottish & Scots-Irish, but I can't say there were no English or Welsh folks in the mix).

    Oh ... I'd also bet my cousin's "Germanic Europe" is unreported by Ancestry, too; it's just that for her they don't suck all of it into "England and Northwestern Europe" as they do for me.

    EDIT: And remember, the only reason I was able to see this cousin's "Germanic Europe" at all is because they report 2% "Germanic Europe" for my daughter -- 2% that they attribute to me in her "Ethnicity Inheritance" breakdown even though they claim I don't have any.
    Last edited by geebee; 04-15-2022 at 02:09 PM.
    Besides British-German-Catalan, ancestry includes smaller amounts of French, Irish, Swiss, Choctaw & another NA tribe, possibly Catawba. Avatar picture is: my father, his father, & his father's father; baby is my eldest brother.

    GB

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    Quote Originally Posted by boilermeschew827 View Post
    Aside from the real Germanic Europe and Swede/Dane from my dad, I get minimal English - checking the confidence level, it's 4% assigned with a range from 0-19%, so very uncertain it seems.
    The confidence level is such a thing as well, because I have ancient Slavic of about 20-30 % according to most calculators, but about half of it is "fully German integrated", its basically so German by now, since more than thousand years, it can't be considered recent Slavic. This leaves about 12-20 percent more clearly/recent Slavic ancestry for me. Funnily, if I would cut my Ancestry range for Eastern European in half, that's where I get, and its fairly close to 23andme, which however seems to have made some of the Central European Slavic Balkan, which is not correct, so they are not flawless too. However, this is a fairly solid number of two digits recent Slavic ancestry, yet Ancestry gives a confidence starting with zero. It should be at least 5 percent, looking at a realistic range. So they get the upper limit right (can't be more than 1/3 by any stretch and the losest of all definitions for Eastern European), but the lower confidence at zero is wrong. The percentage they give is also wrong. 23andme is now right either, like I pointed it out, but they are closer, because its more than 10 % there.

    Since I have some people among my matches which are almost completely German-British or almost completely Central European Slavic, with just a tiny bit of admixture below 10 percent of the respective other component, Ancestry does still "swallow" minor percentages more often than 23andme does. 23andme very rarely swallows a significant admixture completely of West-Central European vs. Eastern European. Ancestry does, at times, at the lower end of things.

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  16. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by geebee View Post
    Oh ... I'd also bet my cousin's "Germanic Europe" is unreported by Ancestry, too; it's just that for her they don't suck all of it into "England and Northwestern Europe" as they do for me.
    You probably have said it already, but what's your German & French on 23andme? Is it closer to your real ancestry on paper? For me its lower than it should be there (by about 10 %), but they rarely miss it on people with actual German ancestry, though I saw it there too, for the low end admixture results (single digit mostly).

  17. #110
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    Not many changes for me, Ireland went a bit up, Scotland a bit down. Still confused as to why it's bucketing Breton ancestry in Goidelic categories rather than Welsh?

    According to the new tool, my parents' results are virtually identical, bar a couple percentage points. Probably not many France-based DNA matches so it could be inaccurate I suppose.

    Ancestry_Update_2022.PNG

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