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Thread: "The Genetic History of the Southern Arc: A Bridge between West Asia & Europe"

  1. #2031
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    Another outlier from Montenegro Iron Age, shifts North-East

    Distance to: MNE_IA:I13170
    0.02600271 Ukrainian_Zakarpattia
    0.03019986 Moldovan_o
    0.03042446 Hungarian
    0.03133947 Ukrainian_Lviv
    0.03140300 Croatian
    0.03225599 Slovenian
    0.03300620 Slovakian
    0.03446570 Czech
    0.03647035 Polish
    0.03752247 Bosnian
    0.03778873 Ukrainian_Rivne
    0.03886117 German_East
    0.03886902 Ukrainian_Sumy
    0.03902731 Ukrainian_Dnipro
    0.03962180 Russian_Belgorod
    0.03967091 Ukrainian_Zhytomyr
    0.03983405 Cossack_Ukrainian
    0.03987041 Austrian
    0.04085063 Ukrainian_Chernihiv
    0.04091259 Russian_Voronez
    0.04168151 Moldovan
    0.04176075 Russian_Orel
    0.04204429 Sorb_Niederlausitz
    0.04241457 Russian_Kursk
    0.04246573 Russian_Ryazan

  2. #2032
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    Pontic Greek
    aDNA Match (1st)
    0.02936008 ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR1551
    aDNA Match (2nd)
    0.03887734 TUR_SE_Mardin_PostMdv:I4540
    aDNA Match (3rd)
    0.03897755 TUR_SE_Gaziantep_Byz:I14648
    Y-DNA (P)
    G-Y316412
    Y-DNA (M)
    E-Y140828

    Empire of Trebizond Byzantine Empire
    Quote Originally Posted by xz1333 View Post
    What Albanian migration ? There is no evidence of any kind of migration .




    I haven't seen evidence of any kind of migration. Nor evidence of any kind of significant Near Eastern admixture or gene flow from the middle east , nor Y-DNA. It is possible there were Jews there since at least the Roman period that were assimilated. Interesting how you relate any kind of change as the result of some kind of migration.

    There is the question of origin of EV-13 of course and where in the Balkans it originated, but this would just mean migration within the Balkans, not neccessarily proto-Albanian . We don't know what Y-DNA proto-Albanians carried.
    What Albanian migration?You don't even know your ancestors history and background and you pretend the expert on genetics.Learn the basics first and then come back again...

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  4. #2033
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyh View Post
    Why would G25 be able to pick it up if qpAdm couldn’t? G25 is just 25 components, qp is SNP-wide. Wouldn’t drift be easier to detect with full range of SNP?
    So there's the matter of picking it up, and then the matter of ruling out that it's just random noise like the half % Papuan or SSA that pops up here and there.
    The test for that is if G25/Qpadm/whatever picks up something > remove it and see how bad the score drops > if it doesn't drop substantially, you can say that the something was inconclusive.
    If it does drop substantially look to see why if you can (in qpadm that would be with the gendstats, for G25 idk), and if the pattern is consistent with the ancestry in question, you can say the sample is likely to have that ancestry.
    Collection of 14,000 d-stats: Hidden Content Part 2: Hidden Content Part 3: Hidden Content PM me for d-stats, qpadm, qpgraph, or f3-outgroup nmonte models.

  5. #2034
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    aDNA Match (1st)
    0.02936008 ITA_Rome_Imperial:RMPR1551
    aDNA Match (2nd)
    0.03887734 TUR_SE_Mardin_PostMdv:I4540
    aDNA Match (3rd)
    0.03897755 TUR_SE_Gaziantep_Byz:I14648
    Y-DNA (P)
    G-Y316412
    Y-DNA (M)
    E-Y140828

    Empire of Trebizond Byzantine Empire
    Quote Originally Posted by Karagjoz View Post
    Most slavic ancestry in albanians is very early (early medieval) and predates the bulgarian/serbian empires
    That goes more likely for northern Albanians from Kosovo,Montenegro and some Ghegh clans/tribes rather Tosks.

  6. #2035
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kale View Post
    So there's the matter of picking it up, and then the matter of ruling out that it's just random noise like the half % Papuan or SSA that pops up here and there.
    The test for that is if G25/Qpadm/whatever picks up something > remove it and see how bad the score drops > if it doesn't drop substantially, you can say that the something was inconclusive.
    If it does drop substantially look to see why if you can (in qpadm that would be with the gendstats, for G25 idk), and if the pattern is consistent with the ancestry in question, you can say the sample is likely to have that ancestry.
    That happens with Papuan for me, what I find strange is my heritage picks it up.

  7. #2036
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    I2a-M423

    Quote Originally Posted by Avraam Kyriakidis View Post
    That goes more likely for northern Albanians from Kosovo,Montenegro and some Ghegh clans/tribes rather Tosks.
    Based on what?? Other way round looks more likely due to the bigger presence of slavic y dna in tosks which points to an early founder effect during a period when there were less people/males
    Last edited by Karagjoz; 09-24-2022 at 10:37 PM.

  8. #2037
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    aDNA Match (1st)
    0.03028386 HUN_La_Tene:I18493
    aDNA Match (2nd)
    0.03179387 SVK_IA_Vekerzug:I12105
    aDNA Match (3rd)
    0.03353149 GRC_Logkas_MBA:Log02
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-FT19186
    mtDNA (M)
    H2a1c

    Albania United States of America
    Let's move on and put any Albanian-related topic to its separate thread "Genetic Origin of Albanians" where users have already contributed a wealth of intriguing information.
    “To Maltsia e madhe I first turned my steps–not to see the mountains, but to see life, history, the world, and the great unknown, as it looks to the mountain man.”
    - Edith Durham

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  10. #2038
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    Did anyone look in the Bulgarian IA samples?

  11. #2039
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    Quote Originally Posted by bce View Post
    i'm sure the amount of EEF in Albanians is consistent with having both imperial Roman and Slavic ancestry. otherwise it wouldn't work in g25. if you doubt it, you can do the maths yourself and check.

    the middle easterners who settled in the Balkans had only around 7% Natufian and probably came from western Anatolia. that still counts as middle east.
    modern Balkanians will then of course have 1% or less Natufian.

    Code:
    Croatia_Trogir_Dragulin:R3665___AD_171___Coverage_38.20%,0.110408,0.144205,-0.022627,-0.059432,0.012002,-0.017291,-0.00235,-0.004154,-0.007158,0.024784,-0.001137,-0.003147,-0.004162,-0.005918,-0.012758,0.007823,0.026729,-0.00038,-0.003897,-0.008629,-0.011979,-0.000247,-0.002711,-0.002771,-0.006347
    Croatia_Trogir_Policija:R3670___AD_168___Coverage_35.99%,0.101303,0.142174,-0.035449,-0.063954,-0.00277,-0.023706,-0.013866,-0.002769,-0.006749,0.01549,0.01494,0.012139,-0.000149,-0.012386,-0.012215,0.01074,0.029597,-0.005068,0.010056,-0.003252,-0.007736,0.000618,-0.007888,0.003735,-0.001916
    Croatia_Zadar_Relja:R3742___AD_177___Coverage_46.74%,0.108132,0.137096,-0.03017,-0.040375,-0.008925,-0.015618,-0.002585,-0.008307,-0.019634,0.003098,0.001461,0.007643,0.00223,0.002615,-0.009093,-0.009016,-0.002217,-0.000253,0.00088,-0.001,0.001872,-0.000742,-0.002095,0.003012,-0.000958
    I thought these you posted were Byzantine samples found who I ran and are more or less like Greeks and Albanians, one of them you posted is also like a Greek, like Bruzmi also said why are you posting samples from Croatia ... Might as well post gypsy samples found in Albania and claim they had a genetic impact. In order to have a genetic impact on a population there needs to be a significant number assimilated in the first place and significant mixing needs to of occurred, some settlers here and there or some minor assimilations, ancestry which can easily be dilluted, doesn't prove that.

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  13. #2040
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avraam Kyriakidis View Post
    That goes more likely for northern Albanians from Kosovo,Montenegro and some Ghegh clans/tribes rather Tosks.
    There are daily updates about Albanian Y-DNA phylogeny and specific articles about R-M417/I-Y3120 phylogeny among Albanians which you can read in specialized projects like Rrënjët:
    https://rrenjet.com/r-l1029/
    https://rrenjet.com/i-y3120/

    Or you can directly access the project's public database and check individual clades
    https://rrenjet.com/databaza-publike/

    Most Albanian R-M417 and I-Y3120 phylogeny has similar TMRCA for both southern and northern Albanians e .g. https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP3994/ or https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y133361/ and it predates the developed Middle Ages. Albanian branching or exclusive clades in most cases predate 800 CE, hence what the above poster said is correct for the most part. Southern Albanian R-YP3994 is the earliest such clade (formed 2200 ybp, TMRCA 1450 ybp) followed by R-Y133361 (formed 1450 ybp, TMRCA 1200 ybp) in northern Albania for R-M417 phylogeny.

    This is easily accessible information which you can read about in the resources I posted - if you're interested in the subject.

    PS There is a dedicated thread about Albanians. Everyone can discuss about Albanians there https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....130#post876130

    This thread is about the "Southern Arc" papers, of which only a limited part involves Albanians and I'm certain that many members of the forum would prefer to discuss about the many subjects of the papers in this thread, while Balkan members can discuss relevant subjects in more relevant threads. If someone wants to reply to my post, do so at the appropriate thread and allow this one to move on to other topics. It can be discouraging for others to discuss about other topics related to the "Southern Arc" if the thread is flooded with members from the Balkans who all discuss Albanian-related subjects which might seem esoteric to outside viewers.
    Last edited by Bruzmi; 09-25-2022 at 12:29 AM.

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