"The Genetic History of the Southern Arc: A Bridge between West Asia & Europe"

[xz1333]

Another outlier from Montenegro Iron Age, shifts North-East

Distance to: MNE_IA:I13170
0.02600271 Ukrainian_Zakarpattia
0.03019986 Moldovan_o
0.03042446 Hungarian
0.03133947 Ukrainian_Lviv
0.03140300 Croatian
0.03225599 Slovenian
0.03300620 Slovakian
0.03446570 Czech
0.03647035 Polish
0.03752247 Bosnian
0.03778873 Ukrainian_Rivne
0.03886117 German_East
0.03886902 Ukrainian_Sumy
0.03902731 Ukrainian_Dnipro
0.03962180 Russian_Belgorod
0.03967091 Ukrainian_Zhytomyr
0.03983405 Cossack_Ukrainian
0.03987041 Austrian
0.04085063 Ukrainian_Chernihiv
0.04091259 Russian_Voronez
0.04168151 Moldovan
0.04176075 Russian_Orel
0.04204429 Sorb_Niederlausitz
0.04241457 Russian_Kursk
0.04246573 Russian_Ryazan

[Avraam Kyriakidis]

What Albanian migration ? There is no evidence of any kind of migration .




I haven't seen evidence of any kind of migration. Nor evidence of any kind of significant Near Eastern admixture or gene flow from the middle east , nor Y-DNA. It is possible there were Jews there since at least the Roman period that were assimilated. Interesting how you relate any kind of change as the result of some kind of migration.

There is the question of origin of EV-13 of course and where in the Balkans it originated, but this would just mean migration within the Balkans, not neccessarily proto-Albanian . We don't know what Y-DNA proto-Albanians carried.

What Albanian migration?You don't even know your ancestors history and background and you pretend the expert on genetics.Learn the basics first and then come back again...

[Kale]

Why would G25 be able to pick it up if qpAdm couldn’t? G25 is just 25 components, qp is SNP-wide. Wouldn’t drift be easier to detect with full range of SNP?

So there's the matter of picking it up, and then the matter of ruling out that it's just random noise like the half % Papuan or SSA that pops up here and there.
The test for that is if G25/Qpadm/whatever picks up something > remove it and see how bad the score drops > if it doesn't drop substantially, you can say that the something was inconclusive.
If it does drop substantially look to see why if you can (in qpadm that would be with the gendstats, for G25 idk), and if the pattern is consistent with the ancestry in question, you can say the sample is likely to have that ancestry.

[Avraam Kyriakidis]

Most slavic ancestry in albanians is very early (early medieval) and predates the bulgarian/serbian empires

That goes more likely for northern Albanians from Kosovo,Montenegro and some Ghegh clans/tribes rather Tosks.

[Gentica277282]

So there's the matter of picking it up, and then the matter of ruling out that it's just random noise like the half % Papuan or SSA that pops up here and there.
The test for that is if G25/Qpadm/whatever picks up something > remove it and see how bad the score drops > if it doesn't drop substantially, you can say that the something was inconclusive.
If it does drop substantially look to see why if you can (in qpadm that would be with the gendstats, for G25 idk), and if the pattern is consistent with the ancestry in question, you can say the sample is likely to have that ancestry.

That happens with Papuan for me, what I find strange is my heritage picks it up.

[Karagjoz]

That goes more likely for northern Albanians from Kosovo,Montenegro and some Ghegh clans/tribes rather Tosks.

Based on what?? Other way round looks more likely due to the bigger presence of slavic y dna in tosks which points to an early founder effect during a period when there were less people/males

[excine]

Let's move on and put any Albanian-related topic to its separate thread "Genetic Origin of Albanians" where users have already contributed a wealth of intriguing information.

[Granary]

Did anyone look in the Bulgarian IA samples?

[xz1333]

i'm sure the amount of EEF in Albanians is consistent with having both imperial Roman and Slavic ancestry. otherwise it wouldn't work in g25. if you doubt it, you can do the maths yourself and check.

the middle easterners who settled in the Balkans had only around 7% Natufian and probably came from western Anatolia. that still counts as middle east.
modern Balkanians will then of course have 1% or less Natufian.

Croatia_Trogir_Dragulin:R3665___AD_171___Coverage_38.20%,0.110408,0.144205,-0.022627,-0.059432,0.012002,-0.017291,-0.00235,-0.004154,-0.007158,0.024784,-0.001137,-0.003147,-0.004162,-0.005918,-0.012758,0.007823,0.026729,-0.00038,-0.003897,-0.008629,-0.011979,-0.000247,-0.002711,-0.002771,-0.006347
Croatia_Trogir_Policija:R3670___AD_168___Coverage_35.99%,0.101303,0.142174,-0.035449,-0.063954,-0.00277,-0.023706,-0.013866,-0.002769,-0.006749,0.01549,0.01494,0.012139,-0.000149,-0.012386,-0.012215,0.01074,0.029597,-0.005068,0.010056,-0.003252,-0.007736,0.000618,-0.007888,0.003735,-0.001916
Croatia_Zadar_Relja:R3742___AD_177___Coverage_46.74%,0.108132,0.137096,-0.03017,-0.040375,-0.008925,-0.015618,-0.002585,-0.008307,-0.019634,0.003098,0.001461,0.007643,0.00223,0.002615,-0.009093,-0.009016,-0.002217,-0.000253,0.00088,-0.001,0.001872,-0.000742,-0.002095,0.003012,-0.000958

I thought these you posted were Byzantine samples found who I ran and are more or less like Greeks and Albanians, one of them you posted is also like a Greek, like Bruzmi also said why are you posting samples from Croatia ... Might as well post gypsy samples found in Albania and claim they had a genetic impact. In order to have a genetic impact on a population there needs to be a significant number assimilated in the first place and significant mixing needs to of occurred, some settlers here and there or some minor assimilations, ancestry which can easily be dilluted, doesn't prove that.

[Bruzmi]

That goes more likely for northern Albanians from Kosovo,Montenegro and some Ghegh clans/tribes rather Tosks.

There are daily updates about Albanian Y-DNA phylogeny and specific articles about R-M417/I-Y3120 phylogeny among Albanians which you can read in specialized projects like Rrënjët:
https://rrenjet.com/r-l1029/
https://rrenjet.com/i-y3120/

Or you can directly access the project's public database and check individual clades
https://rrenjet.com/databaza-publike/

Most Albanian R-M417 and I-Y3120 phylogeny has similar TMRCA for both southern and northern Albanians e .g. https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP3994/ or https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y133361/ and it predates the developed Middle Ages. Albanian branching or exclusive clades in most cases predate 800 CE, hence what the above poster said is correct for the most part. Southern Albanian R-YP3994 is the earliest such clade (formed 2200 ybp, TMRCA 1450 ybp) followed by R-Y133361 (formed 1450 ybp, TMRCA 1200 ybp) in northern Albania for R-M417 phylogeny.

This is easily accessible information which you can read about in the resources I posted - if you're interested in the subject.

PS There is a dedicated thread about Albanians. Everyone can discuss about Albanians there https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....130#post876130

This thread is about the "Southern Arc" papers, of which only a limited part involves Albanians and I'm certain that many members of the forum would prefer to discuss about the many subjects of the papers in this thread, while Balkan members can discuss relevant subjects in more relevant threads. If someone wants to reply to my post, do so at the appropriate thread and allow this one to move on to other topics. It can be discouraging for others to discuss about other topics related to the "Southern Arc" if the thread is flooded with members from the Balkans who all discuss Albanian-related subjects which might seem esoteric to outside viewers.