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Thread: "The Genetic History of the Southern Arc: A Bridge between West Asia & Europe"

  1. #2141
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    duplicate-delete

  2. #2142
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    T1a1l
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    Albania Kosovo
    Quote Originally Posted by Oldways View Post
    Both theories will eventually be put to the test and we can discuss it again, if ancient data is released while we are still alive. Agree to disagree? Jep besen.
    They already have to a large degree. It is not surprising that the only serious scholar to posit and contribute to the Bessi theory was Gottfried Schramm (not even an academic linguist), anyhow let us wait for new samples even though a significant percentage of Albanian-related patrilineals have been discovered in Çinamak (hark back to when you claimed that such lineages would not be discovered on other forums). By the way, care to give a linguistic explanation on the connection between besë and Bessi? It is the foundation of your theory so enlighten us.
    Last edited by Kelmendasi; 10-07-2022 at 12:32 AM.

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  4. #2143
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    We will see, right? You have my besa. Take care man.

  5. #2144
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    Albania Kosovo
    Quote Originally Posted by Oldways View Post
    We will see, right? You have my besa. Take care man.
    I can send you Schramm's works if you would like to familiarise yourself?

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  7. #2145
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    I took the new Alb average that was from 4 months ago posted here on Anthro and I compared to my modern ALb average composed of 20 individuals, using my original model.

    This is what I get




    Alb=Alb, nothing else gets picked up. The fit is not great, but Alb=Alb nevertheless.


    Now this is what happens, when I introduce Thracian.




    How is this possible, are these new Alb averages even real?????



    Variable
    BGR_KapitanAndreevo_IA:Average,0.1217906,0.1598444 ,0.0085982,-0.05168,0.0336678,-0.025881,0.001927,-0.0036462,0.01129,0.0471628,0.0024358,0.0098014,-0.0169474,0.0009636,-0.0248912,-0.0074514,0.0131166,0.0041046,0.0115894,-0.0076036,-0.0087346,0.000445,-0.0031798,0.0012288,-0.0085024
    Constant
    Albanian_new,0.12098974,0.1446909,0.016269078,-0.016299558,0.025773831,-0.0048755065,0.00095344156,0.00027711688,0.0031148 831,0.015759169,0.00013324675,0.0026802597,-0.0071447403,0.0023749221,-0.012327208,-0.00037183117,0.0078564935,0.00061572727,0.0042468 831,-0.004238987,-0.0050441039,0.00093803896,0.00063811688,0.0000618 18182,-0.000051051948
    Baltic_EST_BA,0.1321485,0.1213556,0.0992205,0.1116 62,0.051671,0.040746,0.0158398,0.0204684,-0.0029042,-0.050607,0.0009094,-0.0182389,0.0359462,0.0400344,-0.0180239,0.0018297,0.0103654,-0.000684,-0.0013952,0.0046272,-0.0024957,-0.0062692,0.0106487,-0.017388,0.002359
    Sargat_IA:Average,0.093477,-0.068548125,0.0658075,0.0608855,-0.049201625,-6.98750000000006E-05,0.003055125,0.004442,-0.01516025,-0.02890725,0.014899125,-0.00252875,0.008566625,-0.033236,0.002680375,0.001027625,-0.009664875,0.00121925,-0.001853875,-0.003329625,-0.009343,0.006244375,0.001802375,0.003057625,0.001 167625
    MNG_Early_Xiongnu:Average,0.0668927692307692,-0.207246076923077,0.0557848461538462,0.02571576923 07692,-0.0602005384615385,-0.009375,0.00723107692307692,0.00658553846153846,-0.0122085384615385,-0.0164993846153846,-0.0166386153846154,-0.00288215384615385,-0.000903461538461539,-0.0122060769230769,0.0140104615384615,0.0009178461 53846154,-0.00948784615384615,0.00161784615384615,0.00147938 461538462,0.00503115384615384,-0.0186401538461538,-0.00195938461538462,-0.00628553846153846,0.00203923076923077,0.00205415 384615385
    AZE_Caucasus_lowlands_LC:ALX002,0.097888,0.137096,-0.06939,-0.072675,-0.023697,-0.013666,0.005875,-0.003692,-0.024338,-0.00164,0.011205,-0.013338,0.012636,0.00578,-0.020765,0.030893,0.024903,0.004181,-0.000251,-0.007754,0.004617,0.015086,-0.003944,-0.015544,-0.005508
    ARM_Noratus_Anc:Average,0.0944735,0.137604,-0.05638,-0.0637925,-0.0253895,-0.019941,0.0038775,-0.005192,-0.0223955,-0.0041,0.00609,0.00517,-0.006764,-0.0052985,-0.0010855,0.00305,0.009453,-0.001964,0.005594,-0.0068785,0.003993,-0.00136,0.0019105,-0.0025905,0.003353
    Kura-Araxes_ARM,0.104528,0.129988,-0.065996,-0.040967,-0.050471,-0.005113,0.009165,-0.0065,-0.062005,-0.018619,0.003302,0.009691,-0.016278,0.001308,0.00509,-0.004132,0.009236,-0.001773,-0.001215,0.00148,0.004908,-0.002638,0.002301,-0.005563,-0.001936
    ISR_Natufian_EpiP,0.034147,0.152329,-0.022627,-0.140506,0.042162,-0.085062,-0.016921,-0.015692,0.12476,0.019317,0.028743,-0.025327,0.085926,-0.004129,0.004886,-0.014054,-0.011213,-0.007855,-0.02074,0.023136,0.01123,0.001607,0.00912,0.003735 ,-0.003233

    My Alb average
    Kelmendasi,0.122929,0.150298,0.021873,-0.01938,0.035083,-0.006972,0.00376,0.004384,0.003886,0.019864,-0.003573,0.009292,-0.003717,0.007707,-0.020358,-0.012463,0.00691,0.002787,0.005154,-0.005253,-0.004118,0.002473,0.000123,-0.000361,0.000958
    5:S_Albanian-1.DG,0.124067,0.145221,0.012445,-0.023902,0.026159,-0.006136,0.004465,0.001154,0.002863,0.019499,0.001 299,0.005995,-0.009217,0.015827,-0.021851,-0.016706,-0.005215,0.006588,0.009804,-0.012506,-0.009358,0.004575,0.000123,0.008555,-0.004191
    Toplica_Albanian_son_scaled,0.127482,0.146236,0.01 8102,-0.010013,0.025851,-0.007251,0.006345,0.001385,0.000818,0.015126,0.006 171,0.006294,-0.003419,0.00867,-0.016829,-0.01432,-0.005085,0.001267,0.010307,-0.011881,-0.013975,-0.003462,0.002588,0.003856,-0.000479
    Toplica_Albanian,0.130897,0.148267,0.015085,-0.019703,0.018773,-0.012271,-0.00047,-0.002538,0.000205,0.023691,0,0.006294,-0.00446,0.005092,-0.020765,-0.002917,0.006258,-0.000633,0.010307,-0.005127,-0.013601,0.004204,0.003451,0.007471,-0.001796
    ZanatisCousin1,0.1195,0.1382,0.0184,-0.0177,0.0232,-0.0069,0.0027,0.0001,0.0072,0.0213,0.0007,0.0059,-0.0098,-0.0054,-0.0047,0.0071,0.009,0.0015,0.0021,0.0022,-0.0009,0.0011,-0.002,0.0055,-0.001
    ZanatisCousin2,0.125328031884,0.144646436147,0.017 1811428208,-0.0229859773279998,0.0257061147617999,-0.00748671070736,0.00458348748200003,0.00100692956 599991,0.00355097616799993,0.0229449238120001,0.00 119594895676,0.00396586904600004,-0.00784324328600002,0.00103661937200025,-0.019614552712,-0.00290549112799991,0.008850956962,0.0016892234680 0014,0.00704027956099995,-0.012111586018,-0.0108093601599998,0.00229500204999999,0.000926948 258000026,0.00408095355799999,-0.00271818203199981
    ZanatisCousin3,0.127277712188999,0.142948070092,0. 0258838791848,-0.00480541374500003,0.028815652351,-0.000549577764260008,0.004949061045,0.003130936073 99994,0.00102560412900003,0.0142951806380001,-0.00032496723696,0.00211261982399995,-0.00474610926900002,0.00893020748400019,-0.016691420109,-0.00244814017400001,0.00695068439600008,0.00214923 360699997,0.00900559173499999,-0.00825195131379999,-0.00870041101999993,-0.000675825354000014,0.00350788316299999,0.0016937 1709799998,-0.0010239327829999
    LezhaSample,0.121560865314,0.146956590690999,0.007 65633046700001,-0.0283982696360002,0.01983092586,-0.00890580692308,0.00338833795600007,-0.000580300115999903,-0.00250165751500014,0.0194444683860002,-0.000752932380923999,0.00651450396200007,-0.010981438007,0.00303872875000008,-0.013787148555,-0.00432953073300001,0.00748727681200005,0.00087190 7421000045,0.00712625204699997,-0.0070426290444,-0.00898561653599974,0.00136896186200005,0.00257089 729299997,0.005949302215,-0.00282761897899976
    Albanian:AL12,0.124067,0.141159,0.021119,-0.01615,0.029544,-0.005299,0.00423,0.001385,0.000818,0.02278,0.00292 3,0.005245,-0.016055,-0.005092,-0.018187,0.004641,0.026468,0.000633,0.011313,-0.007003,-0.007736,0.008532,0.001849,0.006507,-0.007784
    Albanian:AL17,0.122929,0.149283,0.004148,-0.024548,0.029236,-0.011156,0.003055,0.001846,0.007772,0.012757,0.000 812,0.002098,-0.005203,0.009358,-0.015472,-0.009149,-0.006258,0.004561,0.013324,-0.011255,-0.004866,0.002226,0.005176,-0.003615,-0.006586
    Albanian:AL29,0.117238,0.147252,0.013576,-0.023256,0.02185,-0.009761,0.00047,0.002308,0.005727,0.021322,0.0009 74,0.001199,-0.005203,0.012386,-0.016694,-0.004641,0.014603,0.00076,0.005279,-0.005253,-0.012228,-0.001607,0.000986,0.000964,-0.000838
    Albanian:AL82,0.121791,0.139128,0.020365,-0.010659,0.020927,-0.003626,0.000235,-0.003,0.000614,0.011299,0.001949,-0.001349,-0.005798,0.011836,-0.013436,-0.01538,-0.009127,0.002787,0.007919,-0.007253,-0.001996,-0.001237,0.002835,-0.001325,0.000359
    Albanian:AL9,0.103579,0.141159,0.018856,-0.011951,0.028313,-0.00502,0.00141,-0.002769,0,0.01713,0.001624,0.004196,-0.009366,0.00289,-0.014115,0.000663,0.005998,0,0.006159,-0.006128,-0.006364,0.004204,0.001602,0.007832,-0.004431
    Albanian:AL98,0.111547,0.137096,0.010182,-0.013889,0.018157,-0.012271,-0.001175,-0.001846,-0.001636,0.022415,0.001137,0.004196,-0.008176,0.003165,-0.022258,0.002387,0.026859,-0.000127,0.004777,-0.000625,-0.012603,-0.00272,0.002588,0.00482,-0.007784
    Albanian:ALB191,0.118376,0.137096,0.022627,-0.008398,0.021235,-0.01255,0.008225,0.006461,-0.00634,0.007836,-0.002923,0.005245,0.003865,0.007019,-0.029587,-0.001458,0.011474,0.003421,0.006034,-0.01088,-0.009982,-0.001855,0.001972,-0.000964,-0.004191
    Albanian:ALB202,0.122929,0.136081,0.015085,-0.016796,0.026159,0.003068,0.00517,0.006692,-0.009408,0.012392,0.003248,-0.001049,-0.00223,0.003991,-0.017915,-0.006497,0.006258,0.000887,0.008799,-0.003126,-0.003868,-0.002597,0.002095,-0.003494,-0.001317
    Albanian:ALB212,0.124067,0.147252,0.016216,-0.024871,0.023697,-0.010319,0.00329,-0.001154,0.005113,0.019499,-0.001624,0.002997,-0.01115,0.011423,-0.027416,-0.011933,0.002999,0.009375,0.009176,-0.014257,-0.004742,0.003833,0.001725,0.001205,-0.003952
    Albanian:ALB213,0.119514,0.137096,0.012822,-0.008398,0.02739,-0.003904,0.0047,0,0.003886,0.017312,0.003897,0.003 897,-0.003122,0.00578,-0.020494,-0.003182,0.004303,-0.004814,0.004525,0.001126,0.00287,-0.004081,0.005669,0.006748,0.002994
    Albanian:ALB220,0.10927,0.147252,0.013953,-0.021641,0.023697,-0.009761,0.006345,0.005769,-0.005522,0.013485,-0.005846,-0.001798,-0.016799,0.004817,-0.019137,0.003447,0.013299,-0.004054,0.01433,-0.001251,-0.008235,0.002349,0.003328,0.006145,0.001078
    Albanian:ALB230,0.122929,0.141159,0.017725,-0.010013,0.031698,-0.008367,0.004465,0.006,0.006954,0.015308,0.007145 ,-0.006294,-0.005946,0.011698,-0.016829,-0.008751,0.000652,0.004561,0.007919,-0.005378,0.002995,0.001607,-0.000739,0.001566,0.002155

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to Oldways For This Useful Post:

     Tutut (10-08-2022)

  9. #2146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldways View Post
    I took the new Alb average that was from 4 months ago posted here on Anthro and I compared to my modern ALb average composed of 20 individuals, using my original model.

    This is what I get




    Alb=Alb, nothing else gets picked up. The fit is not great, but Alb=Alb nevertheless.


    Now this is what happens, when I introduce Thracian.




    How is this possible, are these new Alb averages even real?????



    Variable


    Constant



    My Alb average
    Are the coordinates that make up your average all real coordinates or K13 sims?

  10. #2147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcelow View Post
    Are the coordinates that make up your average all real coordinates or K13 sims?
    My coordinates are from Davidski plus individuals that publicly posted their coordinates in the now closed Albanian thread. I would emphasize that they do not change how my model behaves with Thracian, so I believe them solid additions, Davidski average vs my average still favors Thracian in almost exact manner.

    The new ALB improved average was posed in the now Alb closed thread about 4 months back(in May I think, it's like page 15 or something). The new ALB average behaves like the regional averages. Something doesn't seem right.

    Albanian_Korçë,0.12302,0.14544,0.01538,-0.01564,0.02552,-0.00124,0.00026,-0.00072,0.00242,0.01266,-0.00032,0.0021,-0.00588,0.00424,-0.01294,0.00004,0.00876,0.00042,0.00424,-0.00482,-0.00664,0.00108,0.00068,-0.00048,0.00232
    Albanian_Labëria,0.11954615,0.14466154,0.0129,-0.019907692,0.022992308,-0.0051538462,-0.000084615385,-0.00081538462,0.004,0.015184615,0.00076923077,0.00 33769231,-0.0067769231,0.00077692308,-0.010015385,0.00097692308,0.0073384615,0.000223076 92,0.0031461538,-0.0038615385,-0.0038230769,0.00053076923,0.00037692308,-0.00092307692,0.00026923077
    Albanian_Tropojë-Gjakovë,0.1227,0.14686,0.01738,-0.01518,0.02732,-0.00336,-0.00012,0.00064,0.00334,0.01646,0,0.004,-0.0092,0.00056,-0.00988,0.00074,0.00806,0.0002,0.00318,-0.00284,-0.00548,0.00092,-0.00042,-0.0002,0.00048
    Albanian_Dibra,0.1220716,0.1464068,0.0146516,-0.0200808,0.0259236,-0.0061182,0.001511,0.0002814,0.0015192,0.0169838,0 .0007522,0.003908,-0.0085242,0.0052854,-0.0155376,0.0011286,0.0154266,-0.0000666,0.0057018,-0.0049814,-0.007322,0.0003786,0.0008056,-0.0010482,-0.0013252
    Albanian_Central_Albania,0.11976,0.1461,0.0129,-0.02186,0.02414,-0.00558,0.00028,-0.00128,0.0046,0.01858,0.00032,0.00286,-0.00684,0.00124,-0.0102,0.00174,0.008,0.0012,0.00302,-0.00248,-0.00334,0.0016,-0.00072,-0.00046,0.00102
    Albanian_Mirditë,0.120524,0.14547375,0.0159095,-0.020123,0.0244255,-0.00776375,0.00094125,-0.00101525,0.0012,0.02152425,-0.00089,0.002936,-0.0118215,-0.0031395,-0.01339875,0.0006915,0.0127645,0.00101675,0.004627 5,-0.004877,-0.00644825,0.002372,0.00307425,0.0040085,-0.003198
    Albanian_Pukë,0.120325,0.143725,0.01315,-0.016575,0.024275,-0.00425,-0.000625,0.0004,0.003925,0.01555,-0.0004,0.00225,-0.00675,0.001475,-0.009375,0.0021,0.008,-0.000775,0.002425,-0.0046,-0.005,0.0015,-0.000175,0.000575,0.00055
    Albanian_Himarë,0.11856667,0.14563333,0.0139,-0.022333333,0.023966667,-0.0074666667,0.0005,-0.0018333333,0.0050333333,0.016166667,0.0017333333 ,0.0042333333,-0.0063666667,0.00016666667,-0.0090666667,0.00023333333,0.0060666667,0.00063333 333,0.0031333333,-0.0042333333,-0.0019,-0.00046666667,0.0003,-0.0026,-0.0012333333
    Albanian_Northwestern_Albania,0.12250414,0.1457854 3,0.018467571,-0.014054286,0.027054714,-0.0033674286,0.0013371429,0.0019691429,0.003812285 7,0.015923429,-0.00065328571,0.0041131429,-0.0071024286,0.001901,-0.011136857,-0.0013804286,0.0070728571,0.00078385714,0.00390771 43,-0.004279,-0.0048454286,0.0014961429,-0.00058242857,0.000877,0.00073685714
    Albanian_Montenegro,0.124484,0.1439887,0.0213772,-0.0100424,0.0286827,-0.0047728,0.00146,0.0017577,0.002775,0.0146583,-0.0002061,0.0014157,-0.0071503,0.0037379,-0.0132531,-0.0009117,0.0074787,0.0011261,0.0040591,-0.0053111,-0.0064995,0.001472,0.0003751,-0.0011684,0.0003354
    Albanian_Kosovo,0.12295462,0.14478773,0.017853885,-0.011466462,0.026755269,-0.0027497692,0.00088576923,0.0013136154,0.00222730 77,0.012821846,0.00018711538,0.0022654231,-0.0073647692,0.0029782692,-0.011526423,-0.00073811538,0.0084285769,0.00013642308,0.0035097 692,-0.0056040769,-0.0053803462,0.0016953077,0.000376,-0.0017949231,0.0010002308

  11. #2148
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    New Alb average that was posted here:

    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post856539

    I am sure some of you have your own Alb data set, you can run the same test I did with your own Alb average and compare the results.

  12. #2149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldways View Post
    New Alb average that was posted here:

    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post856539

    I am sure some of you have your own Alb data set, you can run the same test I did with your own Alb average and compare the results.
    This average was made for comparison purposes and includes G25 sims. I have posted another average with just the "official" G25 which make up the new average (it's in the last pages of the thread).

  13. #2150
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    This is how they compare.

    Davidski


    My average


    Your last average



    Your average still prefers Thracian as top choice, but the relationship has significantly shifted. Your regional averages on the other hand do not agree at all with your own G25. They prefer Dardanian, than Cinamak, and Thracian is third but it's not even close.




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