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Thread: Questions about Population Y

  1. #1
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    Questions about Population Y

    So two tribes in the Brazilian Amazon have been found to have trace connections to the Indigenous people of Australia. The group where this connections stems from has been called "Population Y". I have read,but can't verify, that Pop Y traces have been found in the Aleutian Islands and Easter Island. As I understand Pop Y also corresponds to Tianyuan, outside Beijing, the second oldest DNA in East Asia. Also, there is DNA from a site in Mongolia which is similar to,but not quite the same as, Pop Y.

    I've also read that Pop Y corresponds to samples from Goyet in Belgium.

    Questions-are what I've read about Pop Y connections to Tianyuan,Goyet, etc true or more in the way of hearsay? If these connections are accurate would it be fair to say that a group similar to the Indigenous people of Australia inhabited much of Eurasia? Finally what would be the connection of Goyet/Pop Y to the Gravettian culture and to later groups like WHG and ANE?

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  3. #2
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    Paper, source? Samples?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PLogan View Post
    Paper, source? Samples?
    The idea of Pop Y is mainstream and came out of research from the Harvard Reich Lab and Copenhagen in 2015. https://www.jonnesgenealogy.com/the-...-population-y/

    I can't verify the other connections. As far as I remember these assertions were made by commenters on the Eurogenes blog. I'm a newbie at this, there seem to be some interesting connections and I was wondering if someone could either elucidate or debunk this.

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    A new paper here:
    Deep genetic affinity between coastal Pacific and Amazonian natives evidenced by Australasian ancestry
    Marcos Ara˙jo Castro e Silva et al.
    https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2025739118
    Last edited by RCO; 07-28-2022 at 01:49 AM.
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    I am yet to be convinced that this is a real phenomena.

    1) IIRC the original comparison was that Karitiana and Surui had unusual affinity relative to Mixe. I suspect Mixe rather have slight European and/or African ancestry.
    How else to explain that this 'pop Y' having such broad affinity (Tianyuan, Onge, Papuan)?

    2) I believe the effect of statistical noise is quite unappreciated, examples... well I have some examples but it looks like search engines dumped their AG index/cache/whatever during the downtime (and AG's advanced search isn't working either?) so I can't find them. Basically though you can find high-quality precolombian samples that have unusual affinities to just about anyone if you look through enough of them.
    Collection of 14,000 d-stats: Hidden Content Part 2: Hidden Content Part 3: Hidden Content PM me for d-stats, qpadm, qpgraph, or f3-outgroup nmonte models.

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    https://gizmodo.com/three-new-dna-st...hum-1830313369

    "The Meltzer and Willerslev team, which included dozens of researchers from institutions around the globe, also identified a previously unknown population with a distinctly Australasian genetic marker—a very surprising discovery. Found at the Lagoa Santa archaeological site, this individual lived around 10,400 years ago in what is now Brazil. The researchers were not able to detect the Australasian genetic marker in any of the other samples studied, including those found in North America."

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  12. #7
    I just assumed a male C* lineage related to current Australian aborigines split off somewhere near Central Asia, and in north Asia it was picked up autosomally via female mediation by ANE derived ancestors of Native Americans.

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    Australasia != Australia

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  15. #9
    Questions-are what I've read about Pop Y connections to Tianyuan,Goyet, etc true or more in the way of hearsay? If these connections are accurate would it be fair to say that a group similar to the Indigenous people of Australia inhabited much of Eurasia?
    Population Y is the second wave migrants to South America closely linked to Pacific islanders with Papuan-related ancestry, whose ancestors discovered South America. The presence of Y ancestry on the South American Pacific coast indicates that this ancestry likely reached this region through the Pacific coastal route. The Tianyuan individual shares more alleles with some Native American groups in South America than with Native Americans elsewhere. Tianyuan is also more closely related to the Surui than to the Mixe. The Surui are much closer to the Onge than the Mixe. The Amazonians are consistently modeled as a mixture of other Native Americans and the Tianyuan individual, the Papuan, or the Onge, suggesting that a population related to the Tianyuan individual, as well as to the Papuan and Onge, was once widespread in eastern Asia.



    The Tianyuan individual consistently shares more alleles with ancient and present-day East and Southeast Asians, as well as ancient and present-day Native Americans, than with either ancient or present-day Europeans (|Z| > 3; Figure 2A; Tables S2B–S2D). We also find that ancient and present-day East and Southeast Asians and Native Americans are all more closely related to each other than they are to the Tianyuan individual (Figures 2B and S1; Tables S2B–S2D). Taken together, our results indicate that the Tianyuan individual is related to an ancestral group that contributed to all more recent populations with Asian ancestry. Also, the Tianyuan individual’s age indicates that a genetic separation of Europe and Asia must have been earlier than 40,000 years ago. This is consistent with a split time of 40,000–80,000 years ago estimated for European and Asian populations based on mutation rates estimated from de novo mutations [13, 14, 15].

    The fact that the Tianyuan individual, who lived in mainland Asia about 40,000 years ago, has affinities to some South American populations that is as strong as or stronger than that observed for the Papuan and Onge suggests that a population related to the Tianyuan individual, as well as to the present-day Papuan and Onge, was once widespread in eastern Asia. This group or another Asian population related to this group persisted at least until the colonization of the Americas and contributed to the genomes of some Native American populations.

    https://www.cell.com/current-biology...822(17)31195-8
    Last edited by ThirdTerm; 07-30-2022 at 09:38 PM.
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  17. #10
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    Ancient individuals.

    Code:
    CHN_Tianyuan(42000-39000BP),-0.027318,-0.260991,-0.075424,0.071383,0.033545,-0.018407,-0.00799,-0.003,0.040291,0.021322,-0.006333,-0.005995,-0.003568,-0.00523,-0.000407,-0.000663,0.008084,0.002407,-0.001131,0.027263,-0.001747,0.008037,-0.008874,-0.010845,0.011256
    BEL_GoyetQ116-1(35160-34430BP),0.043253,-0.005078,0.003017,0.093993,0.045547,0.001952,-0.00517,-0.000692,0.065857,0.024055,0.00341,0.000899,0.009366,-0.022983,0.019137,0.017634,0.011865,0.004561,-0.006034,0.034767,0.026079,0.002473,-0.023664,-0.061695,0.003712
    RUS_Kostenki14(40000-35000BP),0.035285,0.015233,-0.010182,0.063954,0.017849,-0.00251,-0.004465,-0.007846,0.032519,0.007654,0.006658,-0.005545,0.004014,-0.016239,0.013436,0.024794,0.01004,-0.003421,-0.00729,0.015132,0.020713,0.000371,-0.005916,-0.051212,-0.004071
    RUS_Ust_Ishim(450000BP),-0.050082,-0.11577,-0.090886,0.073644,0.027082,-0.018128,-0.00376,-0.004384,0.0452,0.010387,0.006008,-0.001798,0.000149,-0.003991,0.004614,-0.001724,-0.004955,0.004687,-0.005154,0.015382,0.006613,0.008532,-0.007641,-0.014942,0.007784
    Modern averages.

    Code:
    Surui,0.0578222,-0.3174546,0.1171336,0.10672,-0.1138058,-0.015395,-0.3258188,-0.3916914,-0.0175482,-0.020775,0.0020784,-0.0046758,0.0023192,0.0358646,-0.0134908,0.0005834,0.0109002,-0.0012416,0.0002514,0.0012756,-0.0035436,0.012662,-0.0067784,-0.0074466,-0.009149
    Mixe,0.0578222,-0.3207042,0.1230168,0.0943806,-0.1073434,-0.015562,-0.2782054,-0.3340476,-0.012026,-0.0146882,-0.0071126,-0.0065642,0.0044598,0.0202028,-0.0087946,0.004004,0.006102,0.0004564,-0.0004526,-0.0036016,0.0011732,0.0058612,0.0034018,-0.0017108,-0.0018442
    Ami,0.019236,-0.4500828,-0.047291,-0.0676685,0.1420265,0.0637265,-0.0055698,-0.0148841,-0.0225589,-0.0225791,0.0475472,0.0046758,-0.005545,-0.0019679,0.007234,0.0041103,-0.0033117,0.0049788,0.0085474,-0.0194093,0.0109056,-0.0281929,0.0025389,-0.0061091,-0.0541747
    Han,0.022205,-0.449557,-0.002891,-0.065877,0.068662,0.029939,0.003853,-0.001601,-0.013239,0.000821,-0.060994,-0.007624,0.009814,-0.007117,-0.006241,0.000415,0.001256,0.000762,-0.002484,-0.010027,0.013138,0.006701,0.012554,0.000658,-0.001355
    Onge,-0.0225251,-0.2445288,-0.1324289,0.095965,0.0299327,-0.0047557,-0.0076438,0.0075786,0.0548233,0.0244388,0.023495,0.0032182,-0.0040608,0.0084746,-0.0126933,-0.0111446,0.010918,-0.0016203,-0.0059807,0.0288295,-0.0037107,0.0096905,-0.0128242,-0.0011225,0.0043426

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