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Thread: On the autochthony of Albanian

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straboo View Post
    Thats no suprise at all. According to onomastics, the wider Illryian area (roman definition) is generally split into 2 regions north (dalmatia) and south (illyria propia dicti). Both exist over a proto illyrian subtrat. The entire region is full of genetically related dialects/languages. Albanian emerged out of this family or web. Where exactly nobody knows yet, wether north or south. Perhaps it was part of the Dalmatia group and moved south, or perhaps it was part of an inland part of the southern group or even a mix of both. Maybe Messapic is differentiated from Albanian because it may preceed it and was not exppsed to the same external influences as Albanian and vice versa. I suppose the key is the dating/chronology of the emergence of proto albanian. I thought that the inclusion of old greek words would date its emergence to at least the 1 millenium bc. I'd say this dialect/language went on to replace other similar dialects in the region. Not necessarily by conquest eitheir. For example, it may have been made a sort of offical language after latin. I doubt the romans learnt every illyrian dialect!

    I think we do need Messapic to prove an illryian origin of albanian, in tandem with genetics. If we did not have genetics, it would be our only main help of linking albanian with another IE language, and therefore geographic region of albania etc
    I agree but argument above that Albanian is not like Thracian or Dacian is pretty strong which leaves no other candidates. And I agree Albanian is related to Messapic which is also the consensus among many today.

    I also think there is no such thing as Eastern Latin etc Romanian is related to Dalmatian Latin

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to xz1333 For This Useful Post:

     Straboo (10-06-2022)

  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by xz1333 View Post

    I also think there is no such thing as Eastern Latin etc Romanian is related to Dalmatian Latin
    Wait, are saying that proto romanian could of come from an illyrian or para illyrian language substrat? Thats interesting.

    Well if the area for proto romanian is north of jireck line, south of the danube but has to be close to other illyrian/albanian, say around Nis, then maybe its possible north/central serbia was originally illyrian or para illyrian speaking, because in BA youve got Bubanj Hum III, bubanj Hum IV, Vatin, Paracin, Brnjica cultures. The last 4 are supposed to evolve from Bubanj Hum III, which is supposed to evolve from the Vucedol culture, which Bruzmi said was probably the source of pre proto Illyrian, at least for its western descendant cultures Bela Crkva and Cetina. So why not to consider Bubanj Hum IV/Vatin culture as illyric or para illyric too? Im pretty sure J2bL283 is in BA serbia. If Cetina covered all dalmatia, and the illyrian here was the base of dalmatian romance, then that would add creedence to "eastern romance" being illyric like if you dont consider eastern romance to be separate from dalmatian romance. I tought dalmatian romance was supposed to linked to italian romance (italo-dalmatian) how do you know that dalmatian romance was not just the result of italic (and/or venetic-histrian) settlers in coastal illyrian cities that implemented italic vulgar latin over an illyrian, or older illyrian vulgar latin base? Does the term "italo-dalmatian" only pertain to romance derived from exclusivley italic languages (supposedly LIA histrian, liburnian??? , venetic etc)?
    Last edited by Straboo; 01-24-2023 at 08:09 AM.

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