Page 40 of 61 FirstFirst ... 30383940414250 ... LastLast
Results 391 to 400 of 610

Thread: Impact of invasions and/or settlements in the Iberian Peninsula

  1. #391
    Banned
    Posts
    217
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-DF27

    Castile and León Spanish Empire (1506-1701)
    Here is another example of genetic relationship between north Africa and Europe using TreeMix- 21 ancestries, Jennifer Baker (2.017).

    You dont trust professional geneticists?, we all have our origins in Africa, don't we? Even so, the genetic distances with Africa are gigantic, which means that we share very remote ancestors.

    Target: Spain_Iberia
    51.17-Southern_European
    20.22-Northern_European
    14.53-Western Asia
    4.40-Northern_Africa
    4.14-Southern_Asia
    3.06-Arabian
    2.48-Kalash

    Target:France
    43.16-Southern_European
    30.47-Northern_European
    12.42-Western_Asia
    6.94-Southern_Asia
    2.25-Arabian
    2.25-Kalash
    1.44-Northern_Africa
    0.69-Oceanian
    0.36-Circumpolar

    Target:Tuscany
    36.81-Southern_European
    28.17-Western_Asia
    16.55-Northern_European
    8.24-Arabian
    5.53-Southern_Asia
    2.39-Northern_African
    1.51-Kalash
    0.55-Oceanian
    0.17-Circumpolar
    0.08-Amerindian

    Target: Sardinia
    62.38-Southern_European
    23.75-Western_Asia
    7.37-Arabian
    5.68-Northern_African
    0.81-Northern_European

    Target:Bulgaria
    29.58-Northern_European
    28.73-Southern_European
    26.06-Western_Asia
    6.88-Arabian
    4.95-Southern_Asia
    1.40-Northern_African
    1.38-Kalash
    1.02- Circumpolar

    Target: Morocco
    50.92-Northern_African
    13.87-Arabian
    12.54-Southern_European
    8.12-West_African_Mandenka
    4.94-West_Central_Africa_ESN
    4.80- Southern_Asia
    3.91-Eastern_Africa
    0.90-Western_Asia

  2. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Bodilkas For This Useful Post:

     Aben Aboo (11-30-2022),  hantrolugharsts (11-30-2022)

  3. #392
    Registered Users
    Posts
    2,909
    Ethnicity
    Arab

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodilkas View Post
    Here is another example of genetic relationship between north Africa and Europe using TreeMix- 21 ancestries, Jennifer Baker (2.017).

    You dont trust professional geneticists?, we all have our origins in Africa, don't we? Even so, the genetic distances with Africa are gigantic, which means that we share very remote ancestors.

    Target: Spain_Iberia
    51.17-Southern_European
    20.22-Northern_European
    14.53-Western Asia
    4.40-Northern_Africa
    4.14-Southern_Asia
    3.06-Arabian
    2.48-Kalash

    Target:France
    43.16-Southern_European
    30.47-Northern_European
    12.42-Western_Asia
    6.94-Southern_Asia
    2.25-Arabian
    2.25-Kalash
    1.44-Northern_Africa
    0.69-Oceanian
    0.36-Circumpolar

    Target:Tuscany
    36.81-Southern_European
    28.17-Western_Asia
    16.55-Northern_European
    8.24-Arabian
    5.53-Southern_Asia
    2.39-Northern_African
    1.51-Kalash
    0.55-Oceanian
    0.17-Circumpolar
    0.08-Amerindian

    Target: Sardinia
    62.38-Southern_European
    23.75-Western_Asia
    7.37-Arabian
    5.68-Northern_African
    0.81-Northern_European

    Target:Bulgaria
    29.58-Northern_European
    28.73-Southern_European
    26.06-Western_Asia
    6.88-Arabian
    4.95-Southern_Asia
    1.40-Northern_African
    1.38-Kalash
    1.02- Circumpolar

    Target: Morocco
    50.92-Northern_African
    13.87-Arabian
    12.54-Southern_European
    8.12-West_African_Mandenka
    4.94-West_Central_Africa_ESN
    4.80- Southern_Asia
    3.91-Eastern_Africa
    0.90-Western_Asia
    I didn't expect to see Arabian
    Target: _Arab
    Distance: 1.5938% / 0.01593837 | R3P
    57.6 TUN_Kerkouane_IA
    32.4 Levant_Baqah_BA
    10.0 COG_Kindoki_230BP

    Itrane model

    Target: _Arab
    Distance: 1.2836% / 0.01283568
    60.0 Berber
    11.2 Sub_saharan
    10.8 Levantine
    10.4 Arabian
    7.6 Egyptian

  4. #393
    Banned
    Posts
    217
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-DF27

    Castile and León Spanish Empire (1506-1701)
    Quote Originally Posted by Gentica277282 View Post
    I didn't expect to see Arabian
    Why? Is higher than in all european countries

  5. #394
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,504
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Mixed
    aDNA Match (1st)
    Muslim Andalusi Sharqi Iberia_Southeast_c.10-16CE:I12514_AD_1096_Cov_43.70%_Dist:0.03148322

    Islamic Conference European Union African Union Arab League
    Quote Originally Posted by Abceff View Post
    it varies, from around 25%-50% in modern berbers and 5%-40% in north african arabs

    and no it is a later sample with a bit more west asian/EEF compared to taforalt

    Target: Morocco_EN_(Ifri_n'Amr_ou_Moussa)
    Distance: 2.7921% / 0.02792054
    94.6 Iberomaurusian
    3.8 Levant_PPNB
    1.6 Steppe_Pastoralist
    MAR_EN in studies:
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...569v1.full.pdf

    "One of the greatest transitions in the human story was the change from hunter20 gatherer to farmer. How farming traditions expanded from their birthplace in the
    21 Fertile Crescent has always been a matter of contention
    . Two models were
    22 proposed, one involving the movement of people and the other based on the
    23 transmission of ideas
    . Over the last decade, paleogenomics has been instrumental in
    settling long-disputed archaeological questions1 24 , including those surrounding the
    Neolithic revolution2 25 . Compared to the extensive genetic work done on Europe and
    26 the Near East, the Neolithic transition in North Africa, including the Maghreb,
    27 remains largely uncharacterized. Archaeological evidence suggests this process
    may
    have happened through an in situ development from Epipaleolithic communities3,4 28 ,
    or by demic diffusion from the Eastern Mediterranean shores5 or Iberia6
    "

    "In fact, 30 Neolithic pottery in North Africa strongly resembles that of European cultures like
    31 Cardial and Andalusian Early Neolithic, the southern-most early farmer culture
    32 from Iberia


    "Here, we present the first analysis of individuals’ genome sequences
    33 from early
    and late Neolithic sites in Morocco.We show that Early Neolithic Moroccans are distinct from any other
    35 reported ancient individuals and possess an endemic element retained in present36 day Maghrebi populations, indicating long-term genetic continuity in the region.

    37 Among ancient populations, early Neolithic Moroccans share affinities with
    38 Levantine Natufian hunter-gatherers (~9,000 BCE) and Pre-Pottery Neolithic
    39 farmers (~6,500 BCE)
    . Late Neolithic (~3,000 BCE) Moroccan remains, in
    40 comparison, share an Iberian component of a prominent European-wide demic
    41 expansion, supporting theories of trans-Gibraltar gene flow"

    "IAM shares more drift with ancient Levantine populations, such as Natufians and Levant
    134 Neolithic (Figure 3; Supplementary Note 10), than with any other ancient population.

    135 This result is analogous to preliminary archaeological data pointing to links between
    136 funerary practices in IAM and Pre-Pottery Neolithic B sites in Cyprus
    (Supplementary
    137 Note 1)."

    "IAM people do not possess any of the European SNPs
    161 associated with light pigmentation, and most likely had dark skin and eyes. IAM samples
    162 present ancestral alleles for pigmentation-associated variants present in SLC24A5
    163 (rs1426654), SLC45A2 (rs16891982) and OCA2 (rs16891982 and 12913832) genes. "

    "Based on our aDNA analysis, we identify an Early Neolithic
    Moroccan component that is restricted to North Africa in present-day populations7 169 , which
    170 is the sole ancestry in IAM samples. We hypothesize that this component represents the
    171 autochthonous Maghrebi ancestry associated with Berber populations
    . This Maghrebi
    172 component was related to that of Epipaleolithic and Pre-Pottery Neolithic people from
    173 the Levant
    . By 3,000 BCE, a European Neolithic expansion brought Mediterranean-like
    174 ancestry to the Maghreb, most likely from Iberia"


    So MAR EN is basically the same than oldest Mar Taforalt, just related to Natufian and PPNB on genetic point of view unlike KEB which is also related to european neolithic on genetic point of view.
    Last edited by Aben Aboo; 11-30-2022 at 10:41 AM.
    23andMe, averages
     
    Distance: 0.0164% / 0.01636773 | R6P
    37.8 French_Chalosse
    17.4 BelgianA
    17.2 Berber_MAR_ERR
    12.9 Sicilian_East
    10.7 Polish_Kashubian
    4.0 Shetlandic
    Distance to closest:
    0.02643477 Spanish_CanariasLa_Palma



    Ancestry
     
    Distance: 0.0163% / 0.01634379 | R6P
    32.4 BelgianA
    28.8 French_Chalosse
    17.2 Berber_MAR_ERR
    10.0 Sicilian_East
    8.2 Polish_Kashubian
    3.4 Sardinian
    Distance to closest:
    0.02788822 Spanish_CanariasTenerife

  6. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Aben Aboo For This Useful Post:

     Abceff (11-30-2022),  Gentica277282 (11-30-2022)

  7. #395
    Registered Users
    Posts
    2,909
    Ethnicity
    Arab

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodilkas View Post
    Why? Is higher than in all european countries
    It must be a mistake, it's probably Levantine dna.
    Target: _Arab
    Distance: 1.5938% / 0.01593837 | R3P
    57.6 TUN_Kerkouane_IA
    32.4 Levant_Baqah_BA
    10.0 COG_Kindoki_230BP

    Itrane model

    Target: _Arab
    Distance: 1.2836% / 0.01283568
    60.0 Berber
    11.2 Sub_saharan
    10.8 Levantine
    10.4 Arabian
    7.6 Egyptian

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to Gentica277282 For This Useful Post:

     Aben Aboo (11-30-2022)

  9. #396
    Banned
    Posts
    217
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-DF27

    Castile and León Spanish Empire (1506-1701)
    Quote Originally Posted by Gentica277282 View Post
    It must be a mistake, it's probably Levantine dna.
    Yeah, may be

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to Bodilkas For This Useful Post:

     Aben Aboo (11-30-2022)

  11. #397
    Banned
    Posts
    217
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-DF27

    Castile and León Spanish Empire (1506-1701)
    If you are trying to find out the impact of the muslim invasions in Spain, then the first thing you have to do is understand that;

    1-There is a very ancient north African ancestral component in all of Europe

    2-This component can be evaluated taking into account the results of contemporary populations comparing those countries that have suffered invasions and those in which they have not occurred.

    3-In this way, we can observe a very small BASAL NA percentage in Bulgaria (1,40)<France (1,44)<Tuscany (2,39). I f we consider rhst 2,39 in Tuscany as the basal percentage, the excess up to 4,40 in Spain i.e 2.01, is the percentage that could be attributed to extra population movements from north Africa to Spain during the Roman Empire and 711 AD. That percentage IMHO is insignificant and already existed in ancient samples from the Betica and Lusitania durong the Roman Empires so the impact of the conquest (711AD) is practically non existent.

    4-Another component that could be involved is Arabian-Morocco (13,87)>Tuscany (8,24)>Sardinia (7,37)>Bulgaria (6,88)>Spain (3,06)>France (2,25) which is evidently related to Natufians and Levant_Neolithic

    5-Western Asia (Levant & Anatolia)-Tuscany (28,17)>Bulgaria (26,06)>Sardinia (23,75)>Spain (14,53)>France (12,42)>Morocco (0,90)

    6- For those who are interested in the Levantine markers in Spain, everyone can see that the sum of Western_Asia and Arab is- Tuscany (36,41)>Bulgaria (32,94), while Spain (17,59) has much lower levels similar to the French ones (14,67) and half than Tuscany or Bulgaria. Geography is very important in genetics and explains why the Levantine markers in Spain and France are so small.

  12. #398
    Registered Users
    Posts
    2,909
    Ethnicity
    Arab

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodilkas View Post
    If you are trying to find out the impact of the muslim invasions in Spain, then the first thing you have to do is understand that;

    1-There is a very ancient north African ancestral component in all of Europe

    2-This component can be evaluated taking into account the results of contemporary populations comparing those countries that have suffered invasions and those in which they have not occurred.

    3-In this way, we can observe a very small BASAL NA percentage in Bulgaria (1,40)<France (1,44)<Tuscany (2,39). I f we consider rhst 2,39 in Tuscany as the basal percentage, the excess up to 4,40 in Spain i.e 2.01, is the percentage that could be attributed to extra population movements from north Africa to Spain during the Roman Empire and 711 AD. That percentage IMHO is insignificant and already existed in ancient samples from the Betica and Lusitania durong the Roman Empires so the impact of the conquest (711AD) is practically non existent.

    4-Another component that could be involved is Arabian-Morocco (13,87)>Tuscany (8,24)>Sardinia (7,37)>Bulgaria (6,88)>Spain (3,06)>France (2,25) which is evidently related to Natufians and Levant_Neolithic

    5-Western Asia (Levant & Anatolia)-Tuscany (28,17)>Bulgaria (26,06)>Sardinia (23,75)>Spain (14,53)>France (12,42)>Morocco (0,90)

    6- For those who are interested in the Levantine markers in Spain, everyone can see that the sum of Western_Asia and Arab is- Tuscany (36,41)>Bulgaria (32,94), while Spain (17,59) has much lower levels similar to the French ones (14,67) and half than Tuscany or Bulgaria. Geography is very important in genetics and explains why the Levantine markers in Spain and France are so small.
    Okay interesting so they are using a Levantine component as well yet you are all still scoring Arabian
    Target: _Arab
    Distance: 1.5938% / 0.01593837 | R3P
    57.6 TUN_Kerkouane_IA
    32.4 Levant_Baqah_BA
    10.0 COG_Kindoki_230BP

    Itrane model

    Target: _Arab
    Distance: 1.2836% / 0.01283568
    60.0 Berber
    11.2 Sub_saharan
    10.8 Levantine
    10.4 Arabian
    7.6 Egyptian

  13. #399
    Banned
    Posts
    217
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-DF27

    Castile and León Spanish Empire (1506-1701)
    Quote Originally Posted by Gentica277282 View Post
    Okay interesting so they are using a Levantine component as well yet you are all still scoring Arabian
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-01837-7

    You can consult the different ancestries (21) in this paper, all europeans score arabian

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to Bodilkas For This Useful Post:

     Gentica277282 (11-30-2022)

  15. #400
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,932
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodilkas View Post
    If Spaniards are genetically closer to WHGs than Italians it is because they share more SNPs with them
    Yes, Extremadura is much more European than Calabria (higher WHG, higher ANE etc) but the distance to Taforalt is a bit different from the distance to WHG, at least on Global25.

    WHG is extremely more drifted when compared to Taforalt, see for example the distance when you try to model them with modern populations.

    Target: ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso
    Distance: 0.3637% / 0.36374354
    84.3 Latvian
    14.4 Basque_Gipuzkoa_Southwest
    1.3 Basque_Navarre_North

    Target: MAR_Taforalt
    Distance: 0.2038% / 0.20375116
    86.3 Berber_MAR_TIZ
    7.5 Fulani
    6.2 Dinka

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodilkas View Post
    If Calabria is closer to Taforalt than Extremadura it is because they share more SNPs with them.
    But at the end of the day, South Italians and South Iberians have the same range of distance from Taforalt, and as I have already shown you, the populations in the ranking alternate with each other (Portugal closer than Calabria, Calabria closer than Extremadura, Extremadura, Leon and Galicia closer than Campania, Campania closer than Murcia and so on).


Page 40 of 61 FirstFirst ... 30383940414250 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Impact of invasions of Great Britain and Ireland
    By lorddraco14 in forum Western
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 09-07-2022, 07:30 AM
  2. K1a in the Iberian Peninsula
    By estesiquesabe in forum K
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-23-2020, 07:46 PM
  3. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-31-2019, 12:42 AM
  4. Haplogroup L in the Iberian Peninsula
    By E_M81_I3A in forum L
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 04-29-2019, 10:54 AM
  5. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11-13-2017, 10:59 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •