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Thread: G-S10458 in North Africa

  1. #21
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    J1c2b

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    Wow, L497, that is really European, and according to YFull the subclade is quite northern. It could be a Vandal or some other Roman Auxiliary who settled in Algeria; Algeria was always more attractive for European settlement than Morocco for whatever reason (more farmland?) even in the modern period with the pied-noirs. Tunisia has a very basal clade of R1a that originated in Belarus/northwest Russia, so it isn't unheard of for North Africa having northern European clades.

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  3. #22
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    You should join the G haplogroup group on Facebook. Several Maghrebis are on it if I am not wrong, including Moroccans.
    I don't know much about your subclade, except it's nested in modern European variation, and is quite derived (so a Neolithic introduction is not possible) . Which doesn't mean much, considering Berbers are partially Bronze Age European. The most likely scenario for yours is still a historical introduction, which is not unexpected, non-Egyptian North Africa having been part of the "globalized" broader Mediterranean for 3000 years.

    Several G2 are found in the Maghreb anyway, including in Berbers populations (from Morroco too by the way), although some look more ancient than others.
    Paternal Y-DNA haplogroup: E-M35>E-Z827>L19>M81>M183
    Maternal [grandfather] Y-DNA: E-M35>E-Z827>L19>M81>M183>PF2477>PF2546
    >Mz90>PF6794>PF6789
    Hidden Content

    Lactase Persistence (LP)
    13910: TT (rs4988235 AA)
    22018: AA (rs182549 TT)

    (my mother's LP: same results)

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  5. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ignis90 View Post
    You should join the G haplogroup group on Facebook. Several Maghrebis are on it if I am not wrong, including Moroccans.
    I don't know much about your subclade, except it's nested in modern European variation, and is quite derived (so a Neolithic introduction is not possible) . Which doesn't mean much, considering Berbers are partially Bronze Age European. The most likely scenario for yours is still a historical introduction, which is not unexpected, non-Egyptian North Africa having been part of the "globalized" broader Mediterranean for 3000 years.

    Several G2 are found in the Maghreb anyway, including in Berbers populations (from Morroco too by the way), although some look more ancient than others.
    Berbers are partially Bronze Age European.

    I don’t think you should generalise all berbers with this statement. Perhaps for specific berbers but not for berbers as a whole

    Either way you look at it, it’s not a Berber haplogroup and I felt like the statement below was trying to justify it as one

    I don't know much about your subclade, except it's nested in modern European variation, and is quite derived (so a Neolithic introduction is not possible) . Which doesn't mean much, considering Berbers are partially Bronze Age European.”

    It’s good to have some diversity
    Last edited by Gentica277282; 10-02-2022 at 09:30 PM.

  6. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZWQ View Post
    Cladefinder gave me this:

    Most specific position on the YFull YTree is G-Z24311

    G-Z24311 S11858(?) Y19938(?) Y19944(?) Y19945/Z40136($) Z24311+ Z40134(?)
    ┗━G-Z24316 FGC31901(?) Y19942(?) Y19948($) Y19949($) Z24316(?) Z24319($) Z24321(?) Z24324($) Z24325($)
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/G-Z24311/
    it looks northeuropean clade
    maybe from vandals

    https://www.yfull.com/tree/G-Y163251/
    this what north algerians and north moroccans under G2a got

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  8. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abceff View Post
    not necessarily, and it's only a "poor fit" for arabs/berbers from the western maghreb, though that's a discussion for another thread
    the north african outiler in austria is 1/5 Sicilian for sure
    even his Mtdna is I6a found there

  9. #26
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    On the FTDNA Y-Tree for G-Z24311 there is one modern Spaniard who belongs to this subclade so a vandalic origin for your father's haplgroup is plausible, but it begs the question of realistically how common was Haplogroup G in east germanic peoples like the vandals considering that Z24311 is a rather rare branch of G-L497
    https://www.familytreedna.com/public...;name=G-Z24311

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  11. #27
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    Muslim Andalusi Sharqi Iberia_Southeast_c.10-16CE:I12514_AD_1096_Cov_43.70%_Dist:0.03148322

    Islamic Conference European Union African Union Arab League
    Quote Originally Posted by Gentica277282 View Post
    your father needs to test further for his subclade. 23 and me only gives our basic assignments for haplogroups

    Clearly in Algeria the women were much more open then Morocco considering the diverse parental haplogroups, I knew a Kabyle who had a ydna that was connected to Indians

    You have haplogroups that donít even make sense in Algeria, at least in Morocco the majority are underneath E and the J assignments have an explanation.
    Reducing this equation to more openness for women is clearly a shortcut and a pointless assertion. This can be explained by things other than "a greater openness of mind"
    23andMe, averages
     
    Distance: 0.0164% / 0.01636773 | R6P
    37.8 French_Chalosse
    17.4 BelgianA
    17.2 Berber_MAR_ERR
    12.9 Sicilian_East
    10.7 Polish_Kashubian
    4.0 Shetlandic
    Distance to closest:
    0.02643477 Spanish_CanariasLa_Palma



    Ancestry
     
    Distance: 0.0163% / 0.01634379 | R6P
    32.4 BelgianA
    28.8 French_Chalosse
    17.2 Berber_MAR_ERR
    10.0 Sicilian_East
    8.2 Polish_Kashubian
    3.4 Sardinian
    Distance to closest:
    0.02788822 Spanish_CanariasTenerife

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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aben Aboo View Post
    Reducing this equation to more openness for women is clearly a shortcut and a pointless assertion. This can be explained by things other than "a greater openness of mind"
    Possible we would need more ancient samples from the region for a clearer picture when it comes to ydna

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  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Almodovar View Post
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/G-Y163251/
    this what north algerians and north moroccans under G2a got
    There's also this one https://www.yfull.com/tree/G-Y270793/

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  17. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gentica277282 View Post
    Berbers are partially Bronze Age European.

    I don’t think you should generalise all berbers with this statement. Perhaps for specific berbers but not for berbers as a whole

    Either way you look at it, it’s not a Berber haplogroup and I felt like the statement below was trying to justify it as one

    I don't know much about your subclade, except it's nested in modern European variation, and is quite derived (so a Neolithic introduction is not possible) . Which doesn't mean much, considering Berbers are partially Bronze Age European.”

    It’s good to have some diversity
    You have your own conclusions, I have my own.

    In any case, with the little we have, no modern Berber ressemble the profiles of Chalcolitic North African profile from Iberia or Sardinia, which aren't the ideal proxies since they aren't even in North Africa, but that's all we got.
    And Northeast European-like mtdna haplogroups are found even in the Souss. So I am pretty confident a Bronze Age European contribution is hard to avoid in any Berber population. Maybe isolated Zenagas may or may not have it.
    New modern and especially ancient samples will sort this out. In the mean time, I'll stick to my conclusions and I encourage anyone to have their own.
    Paternal Y-DNA haplogroup: E-M35>E-Z827>L19>M81>M183
    Maternal [grandfather] Y-DNA: E-M35>E-Z827>L19>M81>M183>PF2477>PF2546
    >Mz90>PF6794>PF6789
    Hidden Content

    Lactase Persistence (LP)
    13910: TT (rs4988235 AA)
    22018: AA (rs182549 TT)

    (my mother's LP: same results)

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